The casual player? Someone like myself, I'll deposit every once in a while and play a couple tourney's here and there. I like to think i have a decent understanding of the game, pot odds, implied odds things like that. I know i will never be a top player without the volume. But how big of a difference is there between a player like me and solid "thinking" players?

Last night at work one of my co-workers asked me if I knew what the best hand for cracking AA is. He said a friend of his asked him that same question and he guessed that it was 9-10ss and his friend said he was close but the answer was 8-9ss. I sighed and thought to myself, man, this guy has a long way to go.

Ok, serious answer now-

I played about 5000 SNGs as a part-time player. I ran at about 4% ROI with a basic understanding of poker. Then, I met jennifear and became a student of the game. Over my last 2000 games, I have run at 26% ROI. So I would think the gap between occasional players and the top players is HUGE based on my experience.

 

Originally Posted by J_BOYZZ

ya its true about Aces can be cracked, u jsut have to ply on UB, get in pre, auto lose

fyp.

 

Originally Posted by SICKTIGHT311

Last night at work one of my co-workers asked me if I knew what the best hand for cracking AA is. He said a friend of his asked him that same question and he guessed that it was 9-10ss and his friend said he was close but the answer was 8-9ss. I sighed and thought to myself, man, this guy has a long way to go.

and here i always thought J10!

 

Originally Posted by Believer82

The best way to crack aces is to 5 bet 7-8 offsuit from the sb in a 500 rebuy tourny with 90 left...

yawn mbn

The biggest difference between the type of average joe, low volume online player that I am, and better high volume players is not the things like pot/implied odds, playing short stacked or playing a solid internal game, but rather seeing the high volume necessary to have the ability to recognize your opponents betting patterns, being able to put players on a range of hands and understanding what your opponents are doing. You simply cannot do this if you do not have the volume. The disadvantage to this is clear, you are more than likely playing your own hand, primarily.

I reach this conclusion partially in light of the fact that I have far better results live than online. I attribute this to having more information on opponents while playing live and being able to make plays that I cannot confidently make online.

The short answer is that it makes a big difference and it is also why playing lower stakes online with other players like yourself makes more sense than trying to mix it up with big boys while expecting good results.

Good post.

 

Originally Posted by J_BOYZZ

ya its true about Aces can be cracked, u jsut have to ply on stars

fyp

To answer the OP the difference is like the difference between an Division one college basketball player and a middle school girl.

^^^^^^THIS

pm gags30 for info on this issue

The average Joe poker player:
- thinks people are bluffing way too often, uses this as an excuse to call with 3rd pair etc
- puts "people on a hand" based entirely on what card has just hit the turn/river, with no regard for how each street has been played, player image or position
- put people on ONE EXACT hand rather than assigning a range and figuring from actions as the hand plays out
- will raise fold from EP with 8BBs
- will limp-fold 5bbs from the cutoff
- doesnt use pot odds, implied odds
- thinks they are the most unlucky player when they have missed 3 gutshots after calling down to the river each time
- thinks they didnt play badly when they limp on button with AA, with 3 limpers in, only to go broke on 7 8 9 suited flop
- when describing a hand for what to do with JJ against a raise, fails to mention position, blinds, stack sizes etc
- makes blatent bluffs that make no "story" sense with how the hand has played out
- doesn't think they need to learn

....a few off the top of my head

 

Originally Posted by mateo$55

I played a home game with my brother and some of his friends on Saturday night. These guys literally only play poker when they are having a home game which is maybe once a month or so. When i told them i played on the internet they looked at me like i was crazy and started asking me all kinds of ridiculous questions (is it rigged, isnt that illegal etc etc.) This is the reason i typically dont like homegames because i just cant put up with a table full of morons that literally have NO clue what is going on. So anyways we sit down to play and it basically goes like this....

preflop: limp,limp,limp,limp,fold,limp,limp,complete sb,check bb

flop: check,check,check,check,minbet,call,call,call,fold ,call,call,call,call etc

turn:check,check,check,check,minbet,call,minraise, call,call, fold,call,call,call etc

river:check,check,check,minbet,call,call,call,call ,call etc

showdown: A high,pair of 2's,K high, top pair, 2nd pair etc

This went on the entire night. I was literally the only person to (gasp) open raise preflop, or bet more the minimum bet on any street, or idk fold pre? I was absolutely astounded at how awful the play was by EVERYONE. Some of the hands i saw i couldnt even imagine playing them as poorly as they did if i didnt know what i had. I busted 4th when my TT couldnt outrun the utg limper's J7os when he decided that was good enough to play for stacks. But anyways the best part of the story is the final hand of the tournament. The 2 guys played heads up for like 15 mins neither one of them ever raising preflop. on the final hand the board reads 29TQK with 4 diamonds and the guy on the button when checked to overshoves for about 10x's the size of the pot. The other guys stares at him and says " I dont think you have shit, i call!" and tables A7ss, the other guy then turns over J5os with no diamonds...LOL i just looked at my brother, shook my heads and said "let's get the fuck out of here"

sounds like a typical live cash game. so fing standard.

EXTREMELY clueless. Whoever described that home game absolutely nailed every home game I've ever played in. All clueless. I play live low limit poker and maybe 2 people (including me) at the table know what they are doing. Everyone else will play ANY broadway-rag, any suited cards. Position is completely meaningless to these folks. They will never fold any pocket pair no matter what the board is. THe list goes on. Anyone who says low limit poker can't be beat (rake or whatever) hasn't played enough. I haven't played higher than 4-8 limit and average just about $25 an hour and play on average 15 hours a week.

Online is probably even worse, play any $2 tournament. Any Ace plays like the nuts. Top pair is always the nuts. Never fold JJ-KK when an Ace hits the flop and you are raised. Etc. Etc.

I think you also need to consider the attitude / mentality of the players as well. There are so many different types of players.

You can sit down at a $33 9 Man SNG and have:

• 2 players who are full time grinders.
• 2 players who a part time 'hobby' players and genuine students of the game.
• 3 players who have no concept of bankroll management and just feel like a game.
• 1 player with more money than sense who is terrible.
• 1 guy who has just got home pissed from the nightclubs and has deposited $100.

That's a really wide 'range' of player types, which will have a massive impact on the way they play (so it's not just about skill level).

This is why you shouldn't get caught up in the 'how could you make that call' stuff, because you never know 'who' is steering the mouse on the other side of the world.

Fuck does that make any sense?