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How much do you think your edge increases as stack sizes increase?

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  1. USCphildo USCphildo is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 3:42am)

    When you're shallow, the small mistakes will add up to large profits, but when you're deeper you have more weapons at your arsenal...

    What do you think?
     1 
  2. okse54 okse54 is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 3:52am) in reply to USCphildo

    i think it goes without saying that the deeper u are the more of an edge the better players have over the field, i mean even the best super turbo sng players dont have such crazy ROIs compared to normal structured sngs

    how to quantify how much ur edge increases, not rly sure there is a way to do that. u could compare ROIs of the best players of different structured sngs.

    but clearly the deeper u are the more u can utilize ur skill.
     
  3. comandr_cool comandr_cool is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 3:54am) in reply to USCphildo

    are ur threads desinged to be funny and see what funny responses u get from p5 memebers? or are these real questions.
     11
  4. okse54 okse54 is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 3:55am) in reply to comandr_cool

    to add to that, often one of the arguements given in the infamous, "is it worthwhile to pass up a small edge now if i think i can find a better spot later" debate. is that if u take the gamble now ur larger stack is more valuable since u can let ur skill advantage come out more and so taking the gamble now has more upside than the pure math indicates
     
  5. USCphildo USCphildo is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 3:58am) in reply to okse54

    i'm legitimately wondering how much of an edge the people of P5s think they have with say... 30 BBs 100 BBs or 350 BBs vs the same players.

    Are edges amongst strong MTT regs almost non-existence as stacks go below 20 BBs? just wondering...
    Edited By: USCphildo Aug 13th, 2010 at 03:59 AM
     1 
    Thread Starter
  6. DFish DFish is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 4:00am) in reply to comandr_cool

     
    Originally Posted by comandr_cool View Post

    are ur threads desinged to be funny and see what funny responses u get from p5 memebers? or are these real questions.


    Lol this is exactly what I think everytime I read one of these uscPhilosophical posts.
     
  7. bef99hwk bef99hwk is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 4:02am) in reply to DFish

    I don't want 100bbs and I don't want 20bbs...I'd rather be able to 3b/f and shit once in awhile deep in an ftp tourney.

    EDIT: really dunno if this is serious either cuz OBVIOUSLY cash players love playing 20bb stacks....but no, for most of p5s, they can't play anything greater than 30bbs profitably....including myself.
    Edited By: bef99hwk Aug 13th, 2010 at 04:03 AM
  8. wes_mc wes_mc is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 4:05am) in reply to USCphildo

    My edge starts at 0 when I have 1bb and doubles each time my stack increases by 175%.
  9. USCphildo USCphildo is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 4:06am) in reply to wes_mc

     
    Originally Posted by wes_mc View Post

    My edge starts at 0 when I have 1bb and doubles each time my stack increases by 175%.


    I get it.
     1 
    Thread Starter
  10. byoonz byoonz is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 4:15am) in reply to USCphildo

    i think regs tend to vastly overestimate how much of an edge they have, regardless of stack size, even in the softest of fields.
     
  11. bef99hwk bef99hwk is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 4:40am) in reply to byoonz

     
    Originally Posted by byoonz View Post

    i think regs tend to vastly overestimate how much of an edge they have, regardless of stack size, even in the softest of fields.

    Touche...think I've learned this from my opr over the past 365 days+
  12. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 4:52am) in reply to byoonz

     
    Originally Posted by byoonz View Post

    i think regs tend to vastly overestimate how much of an edge they have, regardless of stack size, even in the softest of fields.


    i think this statement as a whole is incredibly incredibly false; most good regs underestimate how much better at poker they are than a random player, and even other regs.

    however, the opposite is true for a vast majority of regs that are donating in literally every high stakes tournament they play
    170 2 

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  13. MakeMeMaster MakeMeMaster is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 4:54am) in reply to Gags30

     
    Originally Posted by Gags30 View Post

    i think this statement as a whole is incredibly incredibly false; most good regs underestimate how much better at poker they are than a random player, and even other regs.

    however, the opposite is true for a vast majority of regs that are donating in literally every high stakes tournament they play

    yep idiots, keep donating losers!!!
    3 
  14. byoonz byoonz is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 5:02am) in reply to Gags30

     
    Originally Posted by Gags30 View Post

    i think this statement as a whole is incredibly incredibly false; most good regs underestimate how much better at poker they are than a random player, and even other regs.

    however, the opposite is true for a vast majority of regs that are donating in literally every high stakes tournament they play

    wait how is it incredibly false if you think its true for a vast majority of regs lol. but i agree w/ what you said... except i think that applies to a really small small amount of people.
     
  15. jshark4 jshark4 is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 5:13am) in reply to byoonz

    while its obv that the size of your stack is very important, i believe the effective stacks is almost equally important. would i like to play 350bbs effec deep all tourney? no cause im sure im not that good that deep stacked. but if i have 350bbs and everyone else had 20, then lifes great.now that is obvious, but when u ask how much my edge increases as my stack size increases, it vastly depends on what effective stacks are.

    i may have been stupid and was supposed to just infer that we were talking about effective stacks, but o well, guess im stupid then lol
    Edited By: jshark4 Aug 13th, 2010 at 05:14 AM
    2
  16. 3kingme3 3kingme3 is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 5:17am) in reply to jshark4

    For a lot of regs it prolly decreases
  17. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 6:50am) in reply to byoonz

     
    Originally Posted by byoonz View Post

    wait how is it incredibly false if you think its true for a vast majority of regs lol. but i agree w/ what you said... except i think that applies to a really small small amount of people.

    it's false when you consider low and midstakes tournaments...when you're talking about high stakes tourneys like the 100r and whatnot, i think so many regs just donate
    170 2 
  18. ManchVegasPwn ManchVegasPwn is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 7:02am) in reply to Gags30

    i think my edge decreases as my stack size increases... I have much more success with 8-20 BB's than i do with 30-40... any more than 40+ with a few tables remaining i virtually never FT... give me like 12-15BBs with a cpl tables left, ill FT about 75% of the time and top 3 about 40% of the time.
     1
  19. SigmaBetaRho SigmaBetaRho is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 7:32am) in reply to ManchVegasPwn

    I suck with a deepstack, so I'm going to say minimal! However, I do have 10x more discipline than random donks to not spew and I correctly know to polarize my 3 betting range.
  20. Ridleeeyyy Ridleeeyyy is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 7:35am) in reply to SigmaBetaRho

     
    Originally Posted by SigmaBetaRho View Post

    I suck with a deepstack, so I'm going to say minimal! However, I do have 10x more discipline than random donks to not spew and I correctly know to polarize my 3 betting range.

    I didnt think correctly polarizing your own 3betting range was good?
  21. SigmaBetaRho SigmaBetaRho is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 7:38am) in reply to Ridleeeyyy

    wat
  22. Bumbulbee_G Bumbulbee_G is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 7:40am) in reply to SigmaBetaRho

    i have been donating to you gents for years, but i'm happy to feed your bank rolls. : )
  23. Ridleeeyyy Ridleeeyyy is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 7:43am) in reply to SigmaBetaRho

    maybe i mis understood what he said but if we are only 3 betting top range hands, thats not very smart...could be wrong tho. Im still learning
  24. MarkFSU1 MarkFSU1 is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 7:52am) in reply to Ridleeeyyy

    makes no sense to say your edge wouldnt increase, if nothing else your stack can now take 1 or 2 std bad beats, how much your edge increases who really knows but as your stack increases your edge increases regardless if youre a good player or not so good player

    also, when youre shallow the "small" mistakes can lead to big profits, i agree with this too but small mistakes can make big leaks over time it really matters how well youre running and as mentioned earlier the effective size of the stacks youre making your small mistakes against obv matters
    Edited By: MarkFSU1 Aug 13th, 2010 at 07:57 AM
     
  25. skeptix skeptix is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2010 (8/13/2010 11:14am) in reply to MarkFSU1

    Seems like some people are misunderstanding the question. By saying stack sizes it should be clear he's referring to effective stacks. Personally I think it's a very simple question for an incredibly complex topic. I can look at a list of tournaments I play and I know I have a unique expectation in each tournament. Obviously starting stack/blind/ante structure is huge, but also important are a number of other factors (e.g. field size, buy-in, time of day, day of week, what site, etc).

    So for the philosophical, ya, hopefully your edge goes up as effective stacks increase. If I'm better than the field at playing preflop/flop, it should follow that I'll be better at playing all the streets, not because I'm good at playing turns/rivers, but because the field is retarded.

    Would I be as effective playing 100bb stacks all day? Not at first, and probably not for some time, but that's because I've been playing 10-40bb stacks for a long time. My approach to the game has formed around these stack sizes and the situations they create.

    As for the pragmatic, the thought process that leads you to which tournaments you should play needs to be comprehensive. If you looked at my true expectation in the nightly $20 rebuy on stars against my true expectation in the morning $30 rebuy on cake, I think most people would be surprised how far apart the numbers are.

    I agree with Gags30 strongly. Ego kills young internet pros dead.
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