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How would you play this? AQo on the button...CO raised 3.5xBB

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  1. DdotChu DdotChu is offline

    Atlanta, GA
    United States

    Posts: 51
    Joined: Sep 05

    Jan 6th, 2006 (1/6/2006 4:54pm)

    In an early hand bubbabourque made a standard 3.5xBB raise in mid-position with AA got the BB to call, he flopped a set of Aces and he checked behind the caller on the flop, turn gave a possible straight draw and the caller min bet into bubba in which he smooth called....river was a brick and the caller bets the pot, bubba raised 3 times the bet and got him to call with 2 pair.

    After winning that big hand bubbabourque was frequently limping in many pots and making more aggressive preflop raises

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Hand #10822570-38 at SnG-0015b (No Limit Hold'em Sit and Go)
    Powered by UltimateBet
    Started at 06/Jan/06 13:28:55

    Reasoning is at seat 0 with 1360.
    bonec300 is at seat 1 with 1665.
    chengong is at seat 3 with 875.
    Blessedtoo is at seat 4 with 595.
    EvilPlankton is at seat 5 with 840.
    NYMony is at seat 6 with 2360.
    Silverslick is at seat 7 with 2780.
    bubbabourque is at seat 8 with 3100.
     DdotChu is at seat 9 with 1425.
     The button is at seat 9.

    Reasoning posts the small blind of 20.
    bonec300 posts the big blind of 40.

    Reasoning: -- --
    bonec300: -- --
    chengong: -- --
    Blessedtoo: -- --
    EvilPlankton: -- --
    NYMony: -- --
    Silverslick: -- --
    bubbabourque: -- --
    DdotChu: Ah Qc

    Pre-flop:

    chengong folds. Blessedtoo folds. EvilPlankton
    folds. NYMony folds. Silverslick folds.
    bubbabourque raises to 140. DdotChu......?????????
  2. jay_shark jay_shark is offline

    NY
    United States

    Posts: 2,633
    Joined: Oct 05

    Jan 7th, 2006 (1/7/2006 4:17pm) in reply to DdotChu

    Re-raise to about 500- 550 .
  3. jokerindapack jokerindapack is offline

    East Elmhurst, NY
    United States

    Posts: 219
    Joined: Aug 05

    Jan 7th, 2006 (1/7/2006 5:13pm) in reply to DdotChu

    There's nothing wrong with calling either since you have position and see if you can play some pokah.

    Raise is goot as well however what do you do if he goes OTT all-in. In that senario you would be getting just about 2.5-1 on your remaining stack (assuming you reraised to about 500-550 like jay said). So calling it off is only bad vs AA and KK and only marginally bad vs AK or QQ.

    Bottom line IMHO with your stack, this early on in an SnG, I'd lean more towards a call, use your positional advantage, add up all factors, and see if I can take it on the flop.

    - Joker
  4. jay_shark jay_shark is offline

    NY
    United States

    Posts: 2,633
    Joined: Oct 05

    Jan 7th, 2006 (1/7/2006 8:49pm) in reply to jokerindapack

    If you raise to 500 , and this player puts you all in , it would cost you an additional 925 to win a pot of 1985 . These are pot odds of 2.14 :1 which is very close between calling and folding . If you want to play it safe , you may decide to raise to 450 which gives you room to fold the hand in case you're pushed all in .

    I actually prefer raising to 450 as you have some fold equity in the hand since it will cost the player less than 2-1 odds to see the flop which would be incorrect for many hands.
  5. DdotChu DdotChu is offline

    Atlanta, GA
    United States

    Posts: 51
    Joined: Sep 05

    Jan 9th, 2006 (1/9/2006 10:26am) in reply to jay_shark

    My thinking was similar to what Joker said here. Reasons why I called instead of raising here: 1) I had position 2) It was still very early in the SNG and in this stage I'd like to see some flops, try to be more conservative and go on from there. Raising in this spot is reasonable since Bubba has shown to loosen up his preflop standards, however, I think those 2 reasons I stated led me into calling rather than raising from that spot.

    If I were in the BB and SB or it was later in the SNG, I think reraising would've been the correct move, however, this was not the case.

    So I called........

    Hand #10822570-38 at SnG-0015b (No Limit Hold'em Sit and Go)
    Powered by UltimateBet
    Started at 06/Jan/06 13:28:55

    Reasoning is at seat 0 with 1360.
    bonec300 is at seat 1 with 1665.
    chengong is at seat 3 with 875.
    Blessedtoo is at seat 4 with 595.
    EvilPlankton is at seat 5 with 840.
    NYMony is at seat 6 with 2360.
    Silverslick is at seat 7 with 2780.
    bubbabourque is at seat 8 with 3100.
    DdotChu is at seat 9 with 1425.
     The button is at seat 9.

    Reasoning posts the small blind of 20.
    bonec300 posts the big blind of 40.

    Reasoning: -- --
    bonec300: -- --
    chengong: -- --
    Blessedtoo: -- --
    EvilPlankton: -- --
    NYMony: -- --
    Silverslick: -- --
    bubbabourque: -- --
    DdotChu: Ah Qc

    Pre-flop:

    chengong folds. Blessedtoo folds. EvilPlankton
    folds. NYMony folds. Silverslick folds.
    bubbabourque raises to 140. DdotChu calls.
    Reasoning folds. bonec300 folds.

    Flop (board: Qs 3s Tc):

    bubbabourque bets 340. DdotChu......????

    pot = 680

    What would you do now???
    Thread Starter
  6. jay_shark jay_shark is offline

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    Jan 9th, 2006 (1/9/2006 10:39am) in reply to DdotChu

    If he had loose raising standards , then there should be even more incentive to raise with ace queen offsuit in the cut off seat .
  7. DdotChu DdotChu is offline

    Atlanta, GA
    United States

    Posts: 51
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    Jan 9th, 2006 (1/9/2006 12:21pm) in reply to jay_shark

    But this was still early in the SNG. I just get extra conservative during these stages of a tourney or SNG, however, I do see your reasoning for reraising the loose player preflop but I'd still rather try to see a flop in this situation.......anyways he bet the pot into me on a board of Flop (Qs 3s Tc) while I held the AQ, now what would you guys do?
    Thread Starter
  8. jay_shark jay_shark is offline

    NY
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    Jan 9th, 2006 (1/9/2006 4:34pm) in reply to DdotChu

    You have to raise him on the flop .
  9. Tim Lock Tim Lock is offline

    FL
    United States

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    Jan 9th, 2006 (1/9/2006 4:52pm) in reply to DdotChu

    With that flop, you have to raise him. It gives you a chance to win the pot right there, and it can give you more information about his hand. This is not a tough decision in my mind. Raise, and be prepared to go all the way with it if he comes over the top.

    Tim Lock
  10. jokerindapack jokerindapack is offline

    East Elmhurst, NY
    United States

    Posts: 219
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    Jan 9th, 2006 (1/9/2006 6:06pm) in reply to DdotChu

    I wouldn't even give him the chance to pop it I'm pushing hard and heavy reping a huge hand, If he has AA or KK so be it.

    - Joker
  11. DdotChu DdotChu is offline

    Atlanta, GA
    United States

    Posts: 51
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    Jan 9th, 2006 (1/9/2006 7:34pm) in reply to jokerindapack

    Well, I went with the consensus and raised all in. I immediately felt that I was ahead and put him on either KQ, QJ...possibly A10s, AJs....AA, KK, 33, 1010, Q10 were viable possibilities but given the way he was playing I was also willing to take the chance that he held a weaker hand.

    I pushed being content to take the 680 in the pot if he was drawing to get him out of the pot or possibly double up if he held KQ, QJ, A10, AJ. To my surprise he instantly called me with AsJs and outdrew me.

    Hand #10822570-38 at SnG-0015b (No Limit Hold'em Sit and Go)
    Powered by UltimateBet
    Started at 06/Jan/06 13:28:55

    Reasoning is at seat 0 with 1360.
    bonec300 is at seat 1 with 1665.
    chengong is at seat 3 with 875.
    Blessedtoo is at seat 4 with 595.
    EvilPlankton is at seat 5 with 840.
    NYMony is at seat 6 with 2360.
    Silverslick is at seat 7 with 2780.
    bubbabourque is at seat 8 with 3100.
    DdotChu is at seat 9 with 1425.
     The button is at seat 9.

    Reasoning posts the small blind of 20.
    bonec300 posts the big blind of 40.

    Reasoning: -- --
    bonec300: -- --
    chengong: -- --
    Blessedtoo: -- --
    EvilPlankton: -- --
    NYMony: -- --
    Silverslick: -- --
    bubbabourque: -- --
    DdotChu: Ah Qc

    Pre-flop:

    chengong folds. Blessedtoo folds. EvilPlankton
    folds. NYMony folds. Silverslick folds.
    bubbabourque raises to 140. DdotChu calls.
    Reasoning folds. bonec300 folds.

    Flop (board: Qs 3s Tc):

    bubbabourque bets 340. DdotChu goes all-in for 1285.
    bubbabourque calls.

    Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:

    bubbabourque shows As Js.
    DdotChu shows Ah Qc.


    Turn (board: Qs 3s Tc Kh):

    (no action in this round)

    River (board: Qs 3s Tc Kh 4c):

    (no action in this round)

    Showdown:

    bubbabourque has As Js Qs Tc Kh: straight, ace high.
    DdotChu has Ah Qc Qs Tc Kh: a pair of queens.

    Hand #10822570-38 Summary:

    No rake is taken for this hand.
    bubbabourque wins 2910 with straight, ace high.

    Comments on his play? On mine? After reviewing the play I think reraising preflop like jay_shark said would've been the best play, but who knows what he would've done afterwards, but at least I would've had the extra folding equity preflop.

    Initially I was mad he made the call but after looking through it, I really don't mind his play at all. He made an aggressive bet and call with the chip lead and I was only a 53-47 favorite. If he lost the hand he would've had 1675 to work with and the pot was laying him 2-1 to call, so he definetly could afford to gamble in that spot. I was also wondering if anyone would've folded my hand on the flop and still have 1285 to work with (highly doubt it), or just flat call on the flop to let the aggressive player bet off his chips and fold to a scare card (I really hate just calling though).
    Thread Starter
  12. jokerindapack jokerindapack is offline

    East Elmhurst, NY
    United States

    Posts: 219
    Joined: Aug 05

    Jan 9th, 2006 (1/9/2006 10:31pm) in reply to DdotChu

    Tough hand to lose. You did your job...you got all the money in with the best hand. He had outs...good call on his part as well....even if you had a set.

    Only way I see you not losing the hand is AI Re-Raise Pre Flop...he'd have to be in a real gambling mood to call that bet.

    Fold on the flop no way (what are you playing it for if you won't even challenge the raiser at some point in the hand)

    Call no.

    Raise is your only, and best, option.

    - Joker
  13. Generaly Generaly is offline

    TN
    United States

    Posts: 1,761
    Joined: Mar 05

    Jan 11th, 2006 (1/11/2006 4:45pm) in reply to jokerindapack

    I disagree he played like chit, calling with a gutshot is a Donkey play in this spot.
  14. Davio Davio is offline

    Antwerp
    Belgium

    Posts: 505
    Joined: Sep 05

    Jan 11th, 2006 (1/11/2006 6:19pm) in reply to Generaly

    He had the nut flush draw too.

    So he had 12 outs to the nuts and 1 overcard to the board, not that his overcard matters in this situation but maybe he figures you for KQ.

    Given his stack and the pot odds, it was a good call on his part.
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