Full Tilt Poker Game #25397923715: $1K Monday (191209501), Table 11 - 600/1200 Ante 150 - No Limit Hold'em - 01:17:23 ET - 2010/11/09
Seat 1: Ton Locsta (94,102)
Seat 2: Wretchy (71,332)
Seat 3: ibebluffin247 (47,309)
Seat 4: _Flame8_ (27,017)
Seat 5: potatopolice (64,364)
Seat 7: ryanwelch (33,398)
Seat 8: CHOOK2120 (18,648)
Seat 9: Zymon (17,171)
Ton Locsta antes 150
Wretchy antes 150
ibebluffin247 antes 150
_Flame8_ antes 150
potatopolice antes 150
ryanwelch antes 150
CHOOK2120 antes 150
Zymon antes 150
Ton Locsta posts the small blind of 600
Wretchy posts the big blind of 1,200
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Wretchy [Kd Ah]
ibebluffin247 folds
_Flame8_ raises to 26,867, and is all in
potatopolice folds
ryanwelch folds
CHOOK2120 folds
Zymon calls 17,021, and is all in
Ton Locsta folds
Wretchy has 15 seconds left to act
Wretchy has requested TIME

Bubbleish of the 1k. Both players were just moved here
I figured open shover is most pairs, and AQ+AK ( Dont think hes that good of a player)
Caller is roughly 1010+ and AK..

What's my play?

0

these are those gay ak vs ak vs JJ spots....idk you gonna hella advantage in this tourney.

 

Originally Posted by jtj03

these are those gay ak vs ak vs JJ spots....idk you gonna hella advantage in this tourney.

what if you have JJ here isntead of AK? does it make a difference?

Gags, I think it has more to do than just putting in ranges and pokerstoving it. My stack is top 5 in the tournament, how often do I really want to gamble here for 22bbs with 2 people when I could very well be sharing outs? Is it worth the gamble? At what point do I call here? What do their stacks need to be? less/more? I just think there are so many factors behind this that I really feel like its not as straight-forward as you make it out to be. I never post hands, and I figured this would make for some interesting Tournament situation discussion without get it in with AK here

I think i fold here
open shove early position with roughly 20-21 bbs, seems like a scared i dont want to bubble with JJ+ and AK
though i do feel theres a slight possibility it could be a spaz with AQ for the same reasons, but its really the only hand in his range we are hoping for. And the caller well if it is close to the bubble, again is he really calling a 20-21 bb UTG+1 shove that light? kind of find it hard to imagine so. Fold, plenty of time for your stack to pick and choose better spots and abuse the rest of the bubble.

Seriously tough spot imo but in this tourney and stacked this well and with no real reads I would probably fold.

You could argue all day about this spot.
The range you put them on appears spot on, making you a poor 3rd fav equity wise.
But you stand to win 40k, against losing 27k which makes gambling attractive.
Not a clue what the right move is, dont think you can entirely rule out KK or AA , because maybe they could be shoving to disguise what they have?
I think its a definite fold, if Zymon had a stack of 40k+ though.

is really close for me the caller prob shouldnt be calling w aq(well atleast i fold aq there) so hes prob ahead of u or same hand so we aint doing great against his range could easily have a monster. assuming the shover isnt a total retard prob put him on ak or decent pairs sometimes aq, like some 1 said i do find these spots both of u having ak and other guy a pair a lot, dont think theres anything wrong w folding im a nitball tho, then i watch them both flip aq and say to myself what r these clowns doing :) results please?

Is the original raiser really shipping QQ+ here?

How fast did the 17k stack call? I haven't folded AK since '98 and I probably wouldn't start now. Although I think there could be a case made for folding it here if you're accumulating with ease and you have a soft table.

 

Originally Posted by Wretchy

Gags, I think it has more to do than just putting in ranges and pokerstoving it. My stack is top 5 in the tournament, how often do I really want to gamble here for 22bbs with 2 people when I could very well be sharing outs? Is it worth the gamble? At what point do I call here? What do their stacks need to be? less/more? I just think there are so many factors behind this that I really feel like its not as straight-forward as you make it out to be. I never post hands, and I figured this would make for some interesting Tournament situation discussion without get it in with AK here

outside of stove, the only thing to consider is your edge in the tournament - if you had a huge edge then taking a very small +ev stove call would prob be -ev but in a tournament like this I think you have to call if stove is showing profit...furthermore you call and lose you still have 40 bbs - cant pass on edges in a 1k

I think a random shoving 22bbs into six close to the bubble of a 1k is going to show up with a very tight range most of the time, and I think if he's not very good, a TON of that range is going to be AK. I think you have the callers range pretty much spot on. You're going to be sharing outs/chopping with one of them way too often to make this a profitable call in this exact spot. Although, it's so close that's it's probably not a disaster either way.

im sure there is a bunch of cool math someone could do factoring in the wider range being apart of the ~20k side pot and discounting qq+ or w/e for the original shover....

with that said i cant help you with that sort of math danielboy

i would click the call button and expect to win the pot a lot more than whatever that 25% number gags gave us and would throw my laptop at runnin rich's face if i lost and call both opponents fat bitches

I call because its AK lol and its less than 1/3rd of my stack, then I pray that the allin caller has QQ and not AK because these two are usually the top of his range, but they are also the most likely hands he could have.....oh, and from my experience the initial shover usually shows up with JJ here, and less frequntly other pairs and AK, but def never AA or KK.....ooor, the three of you could have AK and you'd be in for a nice sweat to hit your flush!! call!!!