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HU FT of 33r wsop qualfier - hand for discussion + complaining.

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  1. t soprano t soprano is offline

    Silver Spring, MD
    United States

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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 4:19am)

    It' early on in the match and I figure my opponent is pretty good and this hand happens.

    pokerstars Game #4590844446: Tournament #22632537, Hold'em No Limit - Level XVII (4000/8000) - 2006/04/11 - 03:58:52 (ET)
    Table '22632537 35' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
    Seat 3: Gambaholic (354280 in chips)
    Seat 8: t soprano (568720 in chips)
    Gambaholic: posts the ante 400
    t soprano: posts the ante 400
    Gambaholic: posts small blind 4000
    t soprano: posts big blind 8000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to t soprano [Qc 5s]
    Gambaholic: calls 4000
    t soprano: checks
    *** FLOP *** [Qs Qd 9c]
    t soprano: checks
    Gambaholic: bets 8000
    t soprano: raises 16000 to 24000
    Gambaholic: raises 48000 to 72000
    t soprano: calls 48000
    *** TURN *** [Qs Qd 9c] [Js]
    t soprano: checks
    Gambaholic: bets 40000
    t soprano: calls 40000
    *** RIVER *** [Qs Qd 9c Js] [8d]
    t soprano: checks
    Gambaholic: bets 120000
    t soprano: calls 120000
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    Gambaholic: shows [9d Tc] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
    t soprano: mucks hand
    Gambaholic collected 480800 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 480800 | Rake 0
    Board [Qs Qd 9c Js 8d]
    Seat 3: Gambaholic (button) (small blind) showed [9d Tc] and won (480800) with a straight, Eight to Queen
    Seat 8: t soprano (big blind) mucked [Qc 5s]

    This is the hand that busts me 2 hands later.

    PokerStars Game #4590851081: Tournament #22632537, Hold'em No Limit - Level XVII (4000/8000) - 2006/04/11 - 04:00:46 (ET)
    Table '22632537 35' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
    Seat 3: Gambaholic (599080 in chips)
    Seat 8: t soprano (323920 in chips)
    Gambaholic: posts the ante 400
    t soprano: posts the ante 400
    Gambaholic: posts small blind 4000
    t soprano: posts big blind 8000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to t soprano [Ad Qc]
    Gambaholic: raises 16000 to 24000
    t soprano: raises 299520 to 323520 and is all-in
    Gambaholic: calls 299520
    *** FLOP *** [Qd 9h Kh]
    *** TURN *** [Qd 9h Kh] [4s]
    *** RIVER *** [Qd 9h Kh 4s] [Jh]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    t soprano: shows [Ad Qc] (a pair of Queens)
    Gambaholic: shows [Qs Jc] (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
    Gambaholic collected 647840 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 647840 | Rake 0
    Board [Qd 9h Kh 4s Jh]
    Seat 3: Gambaholic (button) (small blind) showed [Qs Jc] and won (647840) with two pair, Queens and Jacks
    Seat 8: t soprano (big blind) showed [Ad Qc] and lost with a pair of Queens

    I'll post my thoughts after I get a few replies and I've broken a few monitors.
     121
  2. darrenelias darrenelias is offline

    Canada

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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 4:34am) in reply to t soprano

    so frustrating jus to read
     
  3. PearlJammer PearlJammer is offline

    Playa del Carmen
    Mexico

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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 4:36am) in reply to darrenelias

    ya, what he said :(

    I got 2nd in the WPT championship double shootout on stars a couple days ago... so I know how it feels man ($1,100 for 2nd)... $26k for first!

    You'll recover... but yeah, that was brutal man... I feel for ya
    14 14
  4. mhoddi mhoddi is offline

    Western Sahara

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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 4:39am) in reply to darrenelias

    In the 1st hand, I reraise him...probably all-in. I mean, you're not folding no matter what comes on the turn right? He's either showing strength or a draw with the raise on the flop...and seeing how I highly doubt you're folding on the turn anyway, why not reraise, and take away the draw right there. If he has a higher Q then so be it...again, no matter what falls on the turn I don't fold HU anyway. Obviously from what he had he got very lucky...I'd just push after his raise in case he had 10 J and take him off the hand.

    As far as the 2nd hand goes...just brutal obv.

    Tough couple of hands t. Sorry for the result. I'm sure you'll get your seat soon.

    gl.
     
  5. Roothlus Roothlus is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 4:44am) in reply to t soprano

    lol wow...I've played with that guy before and I got the same feeling. Initially he seemed like a decent player then you see him make some really awkard plays like these. I guess this is one of those situations where it would be so much easier to be an idiot and just shove your trips bad kicker in on the flop. But he probably still would've called. And if you don't push allin on the flop and decide to raise the turn he's not folding there either. Basically, Lee had it out for you here. I don't think you could've really done anything at all here. Just bad beats and not something you could have avoided.

    Ignorance is bliss.
    471 
  6. t soprano t soprano is offline

    Silver Spring, MD
    United States

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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 4:56am) in reply to Roothlus

    Obviously knowing what I know now I push on the flop or turn. At the time I figure he either has me beat or is going to continue with some retarded bluff or pushing of a 9. The only way it's bad is if im letting him get there with a hand that I'm beating but has outs to beat me (which I figure is unlikely AND he has to hit). At the time I knew what I was getiting into but now I just want to die. HOW DOES HE CALL 300k WITH JQ ASDF. I'm making a FT in a DS AND 33r almost every day now and failing to close, thought I had this one. tks for condolences.
     121
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  7. Crazy Cypriot Crazy Cypriot is offline

    Lefkosia
    Cyprus

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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 4:59am) in reply to Roothlus

    Thats rough... not much u can do in either hand... Agree with what roothlus said, but i would have played it exactly as u did. Both times the play worked.. just got outdrawn.. i feel u cos i had the same thing happen to me last year for a wpt event.. just keep it up
     
  8. Crazy Cypriot Crazy Cypriot is offline

    Lefkosia
    Cyprus

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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 5:01am) in reply to Crazy Cypriot

    You ll get there definitely! this tourneys (especially the DS) are very soft IMO and the only hard table i ever played for the WSOP was the one against u .. u just need to have the cards your way at certain points..

    keep it up.. and the seats will come
     
  9. kinghill kinghill is offline

    Delray Beach, FL
    United States

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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 5:03am) in reply to t soprano

    I thought first hand was played well by Gambaholic, taking the aggessive side with the 2pair and str8 draw.

    Second hand, wow, I don't know. Very unlucky and horrible call
  10. t soprano t soprano is offline

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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 5:05am) in reply to kinghill

    Lee Jones has never let me flop 2 pair and a straight draw, maybe if he did I'd be putting in the 3rd bet with it too.
     121
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  11. mhoddi mhoddi is offline

    Western Sahara

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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 5:08am) in reply to Crazy Cypriot

    t...

    I wasn't faulting your play at all. All i was saying was that I doubt you're folding on the turn no matter what falls. If he insta-pushed on turn do you fold? If so, then I guess your flop call makes sense, but not many of us do.

    So basically all I was saying is that either he has you beat on the flop (and the turn obv) or he's drawing...so why not reraise and take away any draws he has if you're calling/raising the turn anyway? You're right, it is easy to say after I've seen the results, and again, I'm not trying to downplay the way you played it. I'm just saying what I'd have done given the circumstances.

    Either way, I know you feel like ass right now for getting so close. As I said before, I'm positive you'll get a seat soon, and gl.
     
  12. kinghill kinghill is offline

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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 5:14am) in reply to t soprano

    "Every" time I'm just browsing stars tournies I see "t soprano" near the top. I'm sure you'll be back there for a WSOP seat (or is that a 2+ seat?)
  13. t soprano t soprano is offline

    Silver Spring, MD
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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 6:15am) in reply to t soprano

    Just won 33r on party for 8k+, first win in about 500 FTs. Somewhat vindication, gn.
     121
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  14. apestyles apestyles is offline Moderator

    Vancouver
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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 6:41am) in reply to t soprano

    lol, great comment... even though you were talking shit after my Q7 sucked out on you the other night... understandably...
     201 121

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  15. ryanmack91 ryanmack91 is offline

    Fredericton
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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 11:27am) in reply to t soprano

    T soprano Brutal beat that sucks man good luck getting a seat. Im not sure if you remember but you crushed me last ngiht in 2 hands in the 150 and the last one in hte 33 rebuy with 26 left. It was folded around to you near the button wiht blinds 600/1200 and you made it 3600 to go with ak. I in the small blind re riased to 11k with qq you imediatly pushed and i called and you floped a k. Anyways the question is do you fold that to any bet pre and how do i play QQ outta position against that call then fold?. Thnaks dude.
     
  16. EC10 EC10 is offline

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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 12:36pm) in reply to t soprano

    On the 2nd hand, why are you shoving almost 40bb with AQo?

    Do you expect him to call with a worse hand? He really has to be a HUGE donkey to call you with a hand you dominate there.

    AQo is a great HU showdown hand, so why would you want him to fold PF and just take his 3bb raise?
     
  17. Ugottook420 Ugottook420 is offline

    Dallas, TX
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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 1:12pm) in reply to EC10

    Uhh maybe he was playing the player, who was OBV weaker player. Maybe when he saw him raise 3bb, he felt like he could get him to commit with less than his AQ. I would reraise all in 9-10 times in that situation
     
  18. gbmantis gbmantis is offline

    San Pedro Sula
    Honduras

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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 1:21pm) in reply to Ugottook420

    I like your play in both of the above HH's T...

    glad to see you finally learned how to close, in your party tourney :)

    -mantis
    1
  19. donnymost donnymost is offline

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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 3:40pm) in reply to t soprano

    " It' early on in the match and I figure my opponent is pretty good"

    BAD READ
  20. AudiTT AudiTT is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
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    Apr 11th, 2006 (4/11/2006 4:40pm) in reply to mhoddi

    I don't know - when I'm either way behind or way ahead, I like to let the other person take the lead. If I'm going to put my chips in no matter what, there is no harm in playing weak, and you get to induce bluffs or, like this case, let them think they are still leading. OK, so we let them hit their 4-outer on the river, but I don't see a problem with that in the long-run. Given the odds, we are much better EV in the long run since he will only hit the four outer 10% of the time and he liekly makes the same bet many of the times he misses.

    I had a similar situation in a cash game - guy kept betting the whole way, in position, with 33 when I had hit a king, top pair, on the flop. He hit his two-outer on the river and I again just called a decent sized bet and lost. But seriously, if I raise at any point, sure I win the hand right there, but I'm giving up EV against an aggressive player because he will make that same river bet more than the 5% of the time he actually hits his 3. Especially if I check raise the flop he folds right there and I lose a pot-sized bet on the turn, even though there is the chance he hits the 3 on the turn.

    So I guess it depends on who you're playing against and the situation, but I don't mind t's play here at all.
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