Originally Posted by JLizard

I mean are we all spose to go around outing people for things we don't morally agree with? I smoke pot and I pay my taxes . I don't want people who think pot is immoral ratting me out and I don't go around ratting people out to the IRS. Do you think I should? Should they?

I don't know if the right answer is yes or no to this problem. But the better example isn't taxes, but people in your own industry.

Say you are a real estate agent and find people doing shady stuff that affects your ability to earn.

Or three other comparable businesses in your industry get together (collude) to fix prices - or work together illegally to win bids/contracts.

Certainly anyone actively colluding in a tourney or anyone running 2 accounts in the same tourney needs to be outed IMO. that is so clearly wrong.

People stealing equity through multiple accounts - where they just play under a rando name? well if it is your equity they are taking (potentially) then it directly affects your earning power - and I'd think you'd want them outed unless you were doing it too. (not accusing in any way here but just making a general point)

 

Originally Posted by JLizard

I mean are we all spose to go around outing people for things we don't morally agree with? I smoke pot and I pay my taxes . I don't want people who think pot is immoral ratting me out and I don't go around ratting people out to the IRS. Do you think I should? Should they?

so we are comparing smoking weed to stealing thousands? i think everyone can agree stealing is wrong, but if you dont think colluding/ghosting/MAing is cheating or stealing, then no, you shouldnt 'out' anybody...as for me, i think colluding is far worse than smoking weed or cheating taxes...i've asked 3 people so far in this thread to name their backer or horses and they all ran around it or just didnt reply...you were backed by dipthrong and are now on your own, correct? you can honestly say nothing shady ever went on?

i've been waiting 2 years for someone like amandaw to come out and expose some of the collusion that goes on, im still waiting for someone in the top 100 to do it...but im sure by the time they do, it will be too late and nobody will care.

ok, i believe you...only ghosting goes on.

Op is a huge douche, so dont get me wrong here, but OG is right, if not for op posting this, though in original op it seemed to be a rally cry against UB, Foolish would of never outed himself, and the community would never of known about their blatant cheating. I am a casual low stakes guy, so it doesnt really affect me personally, but it would be nice to know how much of this is really going on.

 

Originally Posted by bonflizubi

J- I don't think howie is saying it's 95% rampant. I believe he is saying what many think - that there is *some* degree of collusive play going on out there and that people know about it. I'm not talking about ghosting here- but actual collusion. ANd if people know of it, that is the sort of thing that ought to be outed.

A good example is the killa-tyven and uncle collusion on bodog at a 100r FT. We know they did it there and got banned and funds taken away. Did they do it other times? did others know? I don't know the answers to that.

But if someone knew that player X and player Y shared hands/softplayed/ whatever it might be deep in a tourney- that is the sort of thing that people ought to report *if they know it to be true.* Or if they have fair suspicions, it wouldn't be wrong to report it directly to the sites.

I'll go out on a limb and say it would be 100% correct even.

 

Originally Posted by amandaw111

Jdawg217- youre the fking man! love your game, never wanted to play vs you though. You sure talked smack at the tables too!

Nothing wrong with playing vs other horses in the stable, only wrong when the backer asks you to collude for his benefit like foolish did for the tlb, then tells you he will send u the money after the tourney is over. I was only backed by him on ub, I hated being backed, too much pressure and wouldnt reccomend it to anyone who just wants to play higher and thinks being backed is the answer.

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lol, not really, I feel great man. Much more free time in my life now that Im not wasting it on poker. I didnt waste my time on finishing law school, but I know enough about the law and understand it that I dont make ignorant statements on forums attacking people about breaking the law like you do.

I guess I shouldve finished law school and became an attorney bc I love to argue..we can go all day with this if u want, you are never going to win this argument with me publicly or privately. Feeling inadequete yourself??

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SLUGGER...GIVE IT UP KID, YOU TOO.

I dont consider my pocketfives friends (which I deleted them all before I made my inital thread post out of courtesy) to be real friends. I guess the difference between me and you is that my friends that were "ranked or whatever" that played well, werent my real life friends and I never met them, only discussed hands with them to get better as a player and learn from their skill sets. Since you have already said its a hobby for you, I am curious why you even call these players, you obviously dont know in life, friends.

My real friends at poker dont have pocketfives accounts and most of my friends outside of poker, dont play the game or understand it anyways except for what theyve watched on tv. See, you got 1 thing wrong, my wife didnt leave me. I found out she was cheating and had been for months when I travelled, I gave her 30 minutes to pack a bag, drove the whore to the greyhound bus station and saw her leave maryland and go back to live with her mother in another state. You guys all say she was horribly ugly blah blah blah, the truth is she was like a 10 and Im even going to post a few pictures just for the fk of it and to embarass her ( I would post nudes but I think the p5 mods would remove them?-if not no problem whoring the bitch out)

I filed a seperation agreement shortly after with my lawyer and have not spoken to her since. I have had more fun the last 2 months being single and free and being able to do whatever I want than I had being with her for over 4 years. I guess I blame part of that due to the fact that I played too much poker online or at the casinos and travelled and didnt spend as much time with her or cared to work on the relationship in the way that I should have. I did provide for her and was always honest and faithful to her but in the end I regret being a shitty friend to her and not spending enough time or giving her the attention she deserved. I think a lot of poker players that grind full time are lucky if they have understanding women in their lives. I can imagine that its tough for a woman to sit around waiting for their bf/husband to finish a 10 hour plus mtt session, not knowing if and when it will be over. Then, when its over, dealing with the guys mood that is based on the ups or downs or bad beats etc of the session..

I have no interest in going into business with other people, I disolved my llc with ray/steve and dont want business partners. I enjoy working for myself and will never take a boss in my life again. As far as this going away...nobody outside of online poker gives a flying fk about this stuff. If anything, this whole situation would help my credibility since I have been totally honest, open, sincere, apologetic, and I am trying to be humble again and cooperate with any questions or statements people make about me or players or anything I can help with for that matter.

Stay here and attack me publicly if you will. If I were you I would go find another thread to obsess over. I will say I noticed youre from west virginia and everytime I go to canaan valley to snowboard (love it there btw, great people at timberline lodge) I never find anyone to talk to about poker who reads the forums or studies the game. In fact, last week when I was there, there was a charity poker tournament and I asked the whole room if they had a clue who I was or who amandaw111 or foolishgolf was and everyone looked at me as if I was talking about the most unimportant subject in the world and no one said they had a clue.

thanks for calling me kid I appreciate that

also wp on noticing I was from WV

best of luck

 

Originally Posted by OGHowie

also like to add that because ghosting is not illegal according to the sites, this is why all stables should be public knowledge...it'd be nice to know when im playing against a horse who is being ghosted by a top online pro.

This would be great but alas impossible.
I for one have been on a final table more than once on UB, and the gear change witnessed by my opponent(s) was not his change but someone else's.

I'm so pissed at all of this

yeah, i agree with you zo6, and the first one was on march 13th i believe and ub refunded everyone involved...the other 2 are two posts up in bzimzim's post...march 30th and april 21st

edit: and they were all in 30r because the field sizes are all below 200, which is the only time collusion would really happen...you're not going ot find collusion in 1k size fields on ftp or ps, very rarely if at all.

You were caught with Multiple Accounts. That is cheating having more than one per site. You admitted to collusion once but let me ask you this. After being found out that you had a situation with an underage player, lost 35k cause of it, had multiple accounts, been accused of stealing money from folks, been accused of stealing accounts... WHY should anyone believe you when you say you only colluded ONCE?

You have a credibility issue.

Like I said before, things are going to go on in this game that is out of everyones control... but I think I would be speaking for a lot of people when I say that I would trust my own decisions while playing for my incomes that a 3rd party thought on the situation.

Most of us are 12-20 tabling anyways - hardly enough spare time going on to discuss a hand in real time.

Is there really THAT much difference between ghosting and posting HHs on here for people to discuss? I mean, sure there is a difference seeing as how ghosting could chance a spot in that current spot... but post on here and receiving feedback on it is essentially ghosting for multiple people for futures spots in a weird kind of way.


About the whole wretchy thing - I don't know the whole stroy. Maybe it happened before I was around or before I started thread stalking but from what I have see he was only playing cash games or w/e on the other name... sure it is still wrong but I think people are going a little overboard with it. I highly doubt he would create another account with intent to deceive other players. The P5s part of the community that plays poker as a hobby and lurks around the forums 24/7 just LOVE to see someone big go down for some reason so if anything at all throws up a single red flag they will attack it in a heartbeat.

 

Originally Posted by JLizard

I mean are we all spose to go around outing people for things we don't morally agree with? I smoke pot and I pay my taxes . I don't want people who think pot is immoral ratting me out and I don't go around ratting people out to the IRS. Do you think I should? Should they?

Ordinarily i'd agree with this except your smoking pot affects no one but urself (for the most part) , but cheating directly affects thousands of others for thousands of dollars (in total).....so i agree it's not always "right" to out someone, I think in this debate it's perfectly ok.

 

Originally Posted by Arsonist88

Lol... what makes you think that you deserve to know who everyone backs or who they are backed by? None of your business sir. People avoiding you isn't because of anything other than they dgaf about telling some rando person their private business.

what's to hide? are you embarrassed you give away half your winnings? it makes no sense for this to be some huge secret? but whatever...

 

Originally Posted by Arsonist88

Is there really THAT much difference between ghosting and posting HHs on here for people to discuss? I mean, sure there is a difference seeing as how ghosting could chance a spot in that current spot... but post on here and receiving feedback on it is essentially ghosting for multiple people for futures spots in a weird kind of way..

there is a huge difference...

 

Originally Posted by md7156

just cuz you know wretchy doesn't make it ok for what he did, and the fact he denied it at 1st......lol @ having a witch hunt and hunting only witches you don't know.....cheating is cheating, point blank. you either play the game by the rules or don't play at all....at least the cheat itt outed some of the other cheaters he knew, how many other cheaters do you know that u r protecting?

Are you asking me this question??? Doubt im sticking up for him "just because I know him"... its absolutely absurd the way his case has been blown so far out of proportion... Was what he did the right thing to do? No... but it was nowhere as bad as the way he has been flamed for it (he didnt even gain an edge by doing what he did yet hes labeled as a huge cheater), and it has nothing to do with me knowin him personally, I would feel this way if it were you that got flamed the way he did... However as far as how many other cheaters do you know that u r protecting? I hope your not asking me that question, because almost everybody knows by now the way I feel about this game, and how important the integrity of this game is to me and if your asking me that question I take it as an insult... Especially since you say how many OTHER cheaters do you know that u r protecting, as if you are insinuating that I am already protecting cheaters? Explain yourself bro, I would like a clear cut explanation on what you meant and if or if not you were referring to me with this question.

 

Originally Posted by OGHowie

what's to hide? are you embarrassed you give away half your winnings? it makes no sense for this to be some huge secret? but whatever...

Are you that fucking ignorant OGHowie??? Embarassed that we give half of our winnings away??? Do you realize half of my winnings is much greater than all of your winnings??? I would never be where I am today nor have the amount of money I have today if I was never backed. If you havent been backed and dont know the ups and downs to it, then just keep your mouth shut instead of making yourself look like an idiot. Its a business, and within any business you have confidential agreements you make with your employers, or in this case your backers.... It is nobodys fucking business who is backed by who and it especially isnt your business who is backed by who. Has not a damn thing to do with whats to hide, its more of a respect thing and the fact that "ITS NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS" who pays for somebody elses tournaments, Period... god your an ignorant fuck... its pretty much the same thing as goin around asking people how much money they got in the bank, its none of your GD business! BIN

 

Originally Posted by OGHowie

ughhh lol ok if i have to....the process of ghosting...im deep in a tourney say 45 left, 50k 1st whatever, backer(top100 guy) steps in on AIM and says "ok, time for you tell me every hand you have and ill tell you what to do"...from now on, im not even playing, he is, telling me every move to make, every exact raise, 3bet, everything. no longer am i playing, he is.

now you got me posting a HH and looking for feedback...gboro comes in and says this is what you should have done...ok, thanks, ill remember that for next time...now i still have to take that knowledge and apply it, and im pretty sure applying the knowledge is the hardest part...so now im in the same situation, 45 left, and which situation is better? having gboro help me with a previous HH? or telling me what my every move should be while im currently in the tournament?

sorry to use gboro, awesome guy, not accusing him of anything, but if i was ghosted, i'd want it to be him

Just lol @ all this top 100 bullshit... lets leave that out of it... that means nothing... I am ranked higher than my backer... so I guess I should just be ghosting him? gtfo

My backer decided to pick me up because he trusts my game and the decisions I make... If the backer doesn't feel like their horse is capable of winning on their own then they should drop them or just should of have never picked them up in the first place.

 

obv struck a nerve...but im well aware of both of our stats...and i still do not see the big deal in saying who you're backer is, you've already said you are backed...you've explained nothing

lol... He has quite openly explained that he doesn't have to explain anything actually.

You have no right to know who anyone is backed by.