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I refuse to believe poker players have ever been worse than they are today.

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  1. KarateChamp KarateChamp is offline

    Wallis and Futuna

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    Mar 1st, 2011 (3/1/2011 10:36pm)

    Im always hearing pros saying, "Oh man you should have seen poker 10 years ago", or "back then, no one knew how to play good, and now the bad players atleast know how to play"

    I didnt play poker 8-10 years ago, but what was it like? Was everyone at the table going all in blind or something? No one folds nowadays. If someone raises, they get 5 callers. I see people calling 30BB allins with J9 (because its suited!). UTG raising and UTG+1 calling.. Flop 22x,, UTG+1 having 28o.These are midstakes tourneys. $20-100 freezeouts. Im just curious what the play was like 10 years ago, I cant fathom how it could be worse than now. Did people know how to fold back then? A rag is like the nuts nowadays.
  2. TheGibbons TheGibbons is offline

    Brooklyn, NY
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    Mar 1st, 2011 (3/1/2011 10:41pm) in reply to KarateChamp

    I think the idea is that it's easier to beat a player who always folds than one who never does.
     
  3. Deoxyribo Deoxyribo is offline

    Costa Mesa, CA
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    Mar 1st, 2011 (3/1/2011 10:41pm) in reply to TheGibbons

    unfortunately you are not correct
     
  4. spectrefax spectrefax is offline

    Henderson, NV
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    Mar 1st, 2011 (3/1/2011 10:43pm) in reply to Deoxyribo

    People are just as horrible as they were back then.

    Difference is back then they folded way too often and these days they hit raise/call way too often.
     
  5. KarateChamp KarateChamp is offline

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    Mar 1st, 2011 (3/1/2011 10:48pm) in reply to TheGibbons

     
    Originally Posted by TheGibbons View Post

    I think the idea is that it's easier to beat a player who always folds than one who never does.

    Well thats what im guessing, but i would say the players are worse now. Atleast people knew how to fold.
    Thread Starter
  6. rmull rmull is offline

    Canada

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    Mar 1st, 2011 (3/1/2011 10:49pm) in reply to KarateChamp

    believe it,

    people are definitely still bad though, i'd say the main difference is that people apply a lot more pressure today.
     
  7. 888Brandon 888Brandon is offline

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    Mar 1st, 2011 (3/1/2011 11:04pm) in reply to rmull

    I'm only 24 but I think the same level of bad players exist today. The difference is there the good players today are much better than the best players were 10 years ago. There are also a lot more people in between the really bad players and the really good players which take away from your EV as well.
  8. FastMoney7 FastMoney7 is offline

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    Mar 1st, 2011 (3/1/2011 11:06pm) in reply to 888Brandon

    <<<< BAD BEATS
  9. doubledave22 doubledave22 is offline

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    Mar 1st, 2011 (3/1/2011 11:08pm) in reply to FastMoney7

    the higher stakes are getting tougher but o man played a 24$ multi entry today... yeah noone thinks
     1
  10. Appst08 Appst08 is offline

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    Mar 1st, 2011 (3/1/2011 11:27pm) in reply to doubledave22

     
    Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post

    People are just as horrible as they were back then.

    Difference is back then they folded way too often and these days they hit raise/call way too often.

     
    Originally Posted by doubledave22 View Post

    the higher stakes are getting tougher but o man played a 24$ multi entry today... yeah noone thinks

    yep
     
  11. bonflizubi bonflizubi is offline

    Cambridge, MA
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    Mar 2nd, 2011 (3/2/2011 12:01am) in reply to rmull

     
    Originally Posted by rmull View Post

    believe it,

    people are definitely still bad though, i'd say the main difference is that people apply a lot more pressure today.


    i'd agree with this. People are still bad but just diffferent. Much more aggro bad than before.
     
  12. racer racer is offline

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    Mar 2nd, 2011 (3/2/2011 12:03am) in reply to KarateChamp

     
    Originally Posted by KarateChamp View Post

    Im always hearing pros saying, "Oh man you should have seen poker 10 years ago", or "back then, no one knew how to play good, and now the bad players atleast know how to play"

    I didnt play poker 8-10 years ago, but what was it like? Was everyone at the table going all in blind or something? No one folds nowadays. If someone raises, they get 5 callers. I see people calling 30BB allins with J9 (because its suited!). UTG raising and UTG+1 calling.. Flop 22x,, UTG+1 having 28o.These are midstakes tourneys. $20-100 freezeouts. Im just curious what the play was like 10 years ago, I cant fathom how it could be worse than now. Did people know how to fold back then? A rag is like the nuts nowadays.

    Sounds like you play on pokerstars, but anyway,welcome to the crowd of people that never can get there premium hands to hold up deep in important tournaments, which leaves you feeling like you have left hundreds or thousands of dollars on the table due to suckouts....obviously standard.
  13. RaizeeDaisy RaizeeDaisy is offline

    Saint Louis, MO
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    Mar 2nd, 2011 (3/2/2011 12:04am) in reply to Appst08

    I have to completely disagree with the poster. Nowadays of course there way more players! So obviously you will run across every type good, bad, indifferent. I guess the best way is just to contrast the "bad" players from both time periods.

    Back Then:
    I see bad players as not knowing ANYTHING.
    Position
    Odds
    Value of Hands
    More often "Gamblers"?

    Today:
    I see bad players as not knowing how to apply knowledge.
    Too Tight
    Really good players now for the most part have a developed 3-bet gear,
    I dont think this was true back then. The good players were the ones who were abusing position w/ pot control.

    Poker is most definitely an ever evolving game, time will only tell if the games will get better or worse!
    I find it very +ev nowadays though. Lol. GLGL ALL!
  14. haonhack haonhack is offline

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    Mar 2nd, 2011 (3/2/2011 12:47am) in reply to RaizeeDaisy

    OP also don't forget that live $20-$100 tourneys are considered "low stakes"
  15. Wein Wein is offline Sunday Millionaire

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    Mar 2nd, 2011 (3/2/2011 12:51am) in reply to haonhack

    -You do realize ten years ago 3betting only existed if you had AA or KK, right?

    -Tournament play was done once a year at the main for anyone who had a clue. There was no circuit or place to practice your game

    -Not nearly as much literature.... and the literature wasn't good

    -No idea about stack sizes and how they affect your tournament

    -No tournament strategy sites

    -No Seminars

    -should I keep going?
    Edited By: Wein Mar 2nd, 2011 at 12:53 AM
     
  16. Deoxyribo Deoxyribo is offline

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    Mar 2nd, 2011 (3/2/2011 1:21am) in reply to Wein

    again, weeeeeeeeeeen wins.

    wtf, its wein again. nvm
    Edited By: Deoxyribo Mar 2nd, 2011 at 01:22 AM
     
  17. s.l. halper s.l. halper is offline

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    Mar 2nd, 2011 (3/2/2011 1:28am) in reply to Deoxyribo

    Every time I see someone fully 3x the blinds, or blind down to 4bbs, or raise/fold with 10bbs from the cutoff I wax nostalgic for the oldern days (and I started later than most- Dec 2005).

    Oh, and weeeeen wins again. He is on a heater when it comes to intelligent posts.
     
  18. Marion Cobretti Marion Cobretti is offline

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    Mar 2nd, 2011 (3/2/2011 1:51am) in reply to s.l. halper

    Pre 2006 they were awful. Beyond awful.

    Here's the best example I can think of to explain.

    I once finished 2nd in a $10 one table SNG at party.

    Why is that so special?

    Because I passed out in my chair with 6 people still left in it.
  19. down123 down123 is offline

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    Mar 2nd, 2011 (3/2/2011 4:20am) in reply to Marion Cobretti

    its better to be too aggro than to be too passive
  20. curiousgeorge77 curiousgeorge77 is offline

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    Mar 2nd, 2011 (3/2/2011 4:30am) in reply to down123

    <<<---- I was one of the biggest tight asses you would ever meet back in day on pokerroom.
    I remember when I first started playing I was down 2000 learning to play at the $30-$50 sit goes.
    I qualied into the Grand I believe they used to call it.
    1000 buy in.
    I got down to the bubble and folded KK preflop bc I was scared the donkey raiser would call me with 39 the SIK back on PR and beat me!
    I was so desperate to get in the money for over 2k that I folded KK pre.
    Everyone used to make fun of me.
    Judge raises? Quick everyone fold!
    I cant say im much better today LOL But I def have a 3 bet in me now even while holding 39 myself. So I disagree with your post.
    I was judgegammon im sure some of the older p5s members may remember me from back on pokerroom.
    TheChemist is one of them. Shit back then Chem was as tight as me!
  21. random.chu random.chu is offline The People's Troll

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    Mar 2nd, 2011 (3/2/2011 5:00am) in reply to doubledave22

     
    Originally Posted by doubledave22 View Post

    the higher stakes are getting tougher but o man played a 24$ multi entry today... yeah noone thinks

    wow bro you busto??
    228 1
  22. bonflizubi bonflizubi is offline

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    Mar 2nd, 2011 (3/2/2011 6:42am) in reply to random.chu

    ween- yeah you win!

    Curious though what you think about the players that still are terribad. Do they suck in the same way or has their suckage changed and manifest differently as some of us have proposed?
     
  23. Deoxyribo Deoxyribo is offline

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    Mar 2nd, 2011 (3/2/2011 6:49am) in reply to random.chu

     
    Originally Posted by random.chu View Post

    wow bro you busto??

    dave is confirmed busto.
     
  24. mrfilthyrich mrfilthyrich is offline

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    Mar 2nd, 2011 (3/2/2011 6:57am) in reply to Marion Cobretti

     
    Originally Posted by Marion Cobretti View Post

    Pre 2006 they were awful. Beyond awful.

    Here's the best example I can think of to explain.

    I once finished 2nd in a $10 one table SNG at party.

    Why is that so special?

    Because I passed out in my chair with 6 people still left in it.

    I miss when the first hand of a sng at least 2 people would go all in preflop. If someone didn't go out the first hand there must have been a split pot.
  25. Wein Wein is offline Sunday Millionaire

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    Mar 4th, 2011 (3/4/2011 4:23am) in reply to bonflizubi

    the difference is that the players suck now because they all see all this aggression and try to do it themselves - but pick horrible spots but get lucky and build stacks because with pure aggro. it just happens.

    Five years ago - everyone folded and just waited for premiums.
     
  26. Kiribato Kiribato is offline

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    Mar 4th, 2011 (3/4/2011 7:15am) in reply to Wein

    Forget TAG and LAG! Today there is a new tendency of playing FAG*, especially on rainbow flops, and this is probably the beginning of poker decadence.

    *Fish aggressive
  27. Billyth3kid Billyth3kid is offline

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    Mar 4th, 2011 (3/4/2011 9:09am) in reply to Kiribato

    what are you playing, frerolls? Yeah tehre are some bad players at $10-$30 mtss but what you described, 5 players calling raises (pretty rare) and people calling 30bbs with j9s, sure this stuff happens but nowhere near as much as you describe.

    Also have you been known to 5x late, and say internet players suck?
     
  28. frazze2 frazze2 is offline

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    Mar 4th, 2011 (3/4/2011 1:02pm) in reply to Billyth3kid

    all in A4 off
  29. deadeyed deadeyed is offline

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    Mar 4th, 2011 (3/4/2011 1:18pm) in reply to Kiribato

     
    Originally Posted by Kiribato View Post

    Forget TAG and LAG! Today there is a new tendency of playing FAG*, especially on rainbow flops, and this is probably the beginning of poker decadence.

    *Fish aggressive

    lol...i like this one. Could also add "BAG" meaning "blind aggressive" where a player cannot see his check or fold button and, judging by the hands he flips over, quite possibly doesn't look at his cards
  30. curiousgeorge77 curiousgeorge77 is offline

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    Mar 4th, 2011 (3/4/2011 1:34pm) in reply to Wein

    I am one who tries to learn the aggression. I believe its made me better but I dont play much anymore. At first I was constantly picking the wrong spots.
    This is what makes the difference between the sick players vs amateur like myself.
    What is the top 3 reasons you use when selecting aggression?
    Hope my question makes sense.

     
    Originally Posted by Wein View Post

    the difference is that the players suck now because they all see all this aggression and try to do it themselves - but pick horrible spots but get lucky and build stacks because with pure aggro. it just happens.

    Five years ago - everyone folded and just waited for premiums.

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