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If IVEY OWNS PARTS OF FULL TILT, SHOULD HE BE ABLE TO PLAY ON TILT

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  1. rocketpplayer rocketpplayer is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 12:07pm)

    By know means do I think he is cheating, but if he has ownership in an online site, should he be able to play. I looked at a list of there players, and after the AP/UB thing we all know that someone can see the cards. These guys are playing for millions of dollars and playing against the owners. Isn't that a conflict of intrest.
  2. I Spew Chips I Spew Chips is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 12:09pm) in reply to rocketpplayer

    Technically, he doesn't own the site. I believe he owns part of the company that leases the software we use to play to the off shore gambling company. But who knows.
     
  3. Beaver Fever Beaver Fever is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 12:09pm) in reply to rocketpplayer

    Yes he should be able to play, no it is not a conflict of interest.
     
  4. bef99hwk bef99hwk is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 12:09pm) in reply to rocketpplayer

    Ivey sees cards cuz he plays so well....he doesn't need to cheat. Worry more about DN on stars....if he soul reads live, watch out on pstars lawl.
  5. Big&Nasty386 Big&Nasty386 is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 12:18pm) in reply to I Spew Chips

     
    Originally Posted by I Spew Chips View Post

    Technically, he doesn't own the site. I believe he owns part of the company that leases the software we use to play to the off shore gambling company. But who knows.

    Technically he does own the site. He has shares in the sites. So he does have ownership. I guess its like play the house, it always wins.
  6. andressoprano andressoprano is offline whaddya think of my game?

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 12:25pm) in reply to rocketpplayer

    After reading the OP, I decided to quit playing him online,from now on we'll only play on Saturdays after the barbecue
     1
  7. wny2nyc47 wny2nyc47 is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 12:52pm) in reply to rocketpplayer

    As defined by 99% of the marketplace‚ yes. But calling attention to it will only result in being treated like a Duraflame for 30 minutes.

    GL.
  8. robodarko robodarko is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 1:26pm) in reply to andressoprano

     
    Originally Posted by andressoprano View Post


    After reading the OP, I decided to quit playing him online,from now on we'll only play on Saturdays after the barbecue

    sorry bro, saturday afternoon is my and phil's high stakes heads up hop scotch tourney... 10k per square.
  9. cardsOFmaine cardsOFmaine is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 2:55pm) in reply to robodarko

    if Ivey does own it, he would be arrested....they cannot legal own an online poker site and still live in the USA....that is why Bodog's Ayre got in so much trouble...
  10. dtools22 dtools22 is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 3:12pm) in reply to rocketpplayer

    Back to OPs original question, would it be wrong for the owner of a casino to play the house games? No.

    Now I'm not dumb enough to assume that this is the best analogy around but I don't think simply because UBs owners couldn't handle themselves that all owners on all sites should be forbidden to play.
  11. An Actuary An Actuary is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 3:14pm) in reply to dtools22

    to me, saying he can't play is like admitting that there would be some way to beat the game illegally or unethically.

    If Full Tilt has no way for someone to have advance knowledge of the cards yet to come on the board or opponent's hole cards.. then he should be allowed to play.
  12. lordxixor101 lordxixor101 is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 4:04pm) in reply to rocketpplayer

    First off, I'm pretty sure in some way Ivey owns part of Tilt, how it works legally, I have no idea (I'm sure with online poker sites not being able to take US money, there are some interesting relationships), but I think to the average person, yes Ivey owns.

    I think there would be a conflict of interest if Ivey owned the site and didn't tell anyone. But, the simple fact we're having this discussion negates that fact. When you sit down with Phil on FT, you know that he owns part of the site.

    One thing of note is that FT rakes in a Fortune in rake. It wouldn't be worth it to Phil to cheat on his site, the money he'd win before he was caught would be a small percentage of what he'll rake in owning the site.

    So, because of all this (and I'm sure FT keeps maticulous records of all their pros playing to be able disprove any allegations quickly), I wouldn't worry about him cheating.

    Now, the fact that he is maybe the best player alive would worry the living hell out of me, but that's another story.
  13. 213 213 is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 5:11pm) in reply to rocketpplayer

    its one of those, you think you know, but you have no idea mtv type deals
     
  14. Laois Hammer Laois Hammer is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 5:13pm) in reply to 213

    if i own my house should i be allowed play in my home game?
     
  15. jokerswild jokerswild is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 5:17pm) in reply to Laois Hammer

    Larry Flint plays in his casino every week...
  16. threeven threeven is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 5:25pm) in reply to rocketpplayer

    lol thats the whole point of FTP
    2
  17. jdpc27 jdpc27 is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 5:46pm) in reply to jokerswild

    The ownership structure of fulltilt is easy to figure out with a little google searching..

    Essentially, it is lederer's and Ferguson's baby, with the help of Ferguson's business partner from his previous job Ray Bitar. My understanding is they didn't want to front all the money to start it, so they brought in ivey, harmon, etc and so forth.

    Fact is that they formed a group called the corporation which played several high stakes HU matches vs. Andy Beal, a rich banker. They ended up taking him for a total of 12 million plus, and rumor has it that they all chipped this money in as the seed money to start up fulltilt. So in reality, Andy Beal is probably the biggest reason why fulltilt is what it is, even tho he received nothing since he lost the money instead of financed fulltilt. :)

    They have been smart in seperating themselves thru several shell companies to remove themselves as far as they can, but that doesn't change who owns full tilt, and its lederer and bitar calling most of the shots operation wise, and the rest collecting their monthly / quarterly payout checks.

    As for should they be able to play on the site...as long as proper measures are in place, why not. I just wouldn't want ivey to be involved in the design and testing software phases and also a player. I assume this is probably why ferguson doesn't play much online, cuz i think he is involved in those things.

    JD

    Edit: on a side note, the actual servers that the fulltilt software runs on are not located in any fulltilt office...rather they are housed onsite at the gaming commission that licenses them.
    22 
  18. scarface_79 scarface_79 is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 6:59pm) in reply to rocketpplayer

    learn, chat, and PLAY with the pros. that is their whole marketing campaign that has made them grow to the powerhouse theyve become today. That's the reason ivey and the original group have %'s of full tilt, and fulfill their obligation to play on the tables to help the site grow.
     1
  19. kyzersosa1 kyzersosa1 is offline

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    Apr 27th, 2009 (4/27/2009 10:08pm) in reply to I Spew Chips

    it was my understanding not only ivery but ferguson, juanda, lederer all have stakes in the company. I thought this was common knowledge, thats another reason clionie gowen has had her lawsuit she was supposed to be part owner too.
    I absolutely would never accuse ivey or the site of cheating. Should be no problem there they make too much money legitimately to risk getting shut down.
  20. rocketpplayer rocketpplayer is offline

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    Apr 28th, 2009 (4/28/2009 7:24am) in reply to kyzersosa1

     
    Originally Posted by kyzersosa1 View Post

    it was my understanding not only ivery but ferguson, juanda, lederer all have stakes in the company. I thought this was common knowledge, thats another reason clionie gowen has had her lawsuit she was supposed to be part owner too.
    I absolutely would never accuse ivey or the site of cheating. Should be no problem there they make too much money legitimately to risk getting shut down.

    Thats my point, Getting shut down. Who is going to shut them down, because its not regulated. There in some 3rd world country that 50k is like 20 million here.
    Thread Starter
  21. wny2nyc47 wny2nyc47 is offline

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    Apr 28th, 2009 (4/28/2009 11:19am) in reply to rocketpplayer

    It's obvious that the term "conflict of interest" is kind of lost here. It has nothing to do with cheating. It has to do with an appropriate level of involvement. Wikipedia: A conflict of interest exists even if no improper act results from it, and can create an appearance of impropriety that can undermine confidence in the conflicted individual or organization.

    I think the degree of Ivey's involvement in the ownership of FTP would determine whether there was a conflict of interest. No one knows the specifics of how much of an "owner" he is and there's no publicly-filed reporting documents or anything subject to a freedom of information act request that would tell you this.

    Howard's a smart guy and one would assume that he'd make sure players with owner interests would be appropriately isolated from being able to gain any edge on his site.
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