Originally Posted by Skallagrim

Hi folks, Skallagrim from the PPA's Litigation Support Network chiming in:

1) As TE said, the PPA is well aware of this case and is in the process of working with the players to help find them legal representation and to assist in their defense of this case.

2) A number of states have laws that specifically allow folks to sue to recover their "gambling" losses if they lost in an "unlicensed" game. The laws vary a good bit from state to state. The key to this lawsuit is the ability of a 3rd party (i.e. someone who was not playing in the game at all) to sue for money. If you live in such a state you need to be aware that you too may be the subject of suit if 1) you are a winner and 2) some greedy lawyer out there can get information on who you are, when and where you played, and how much you won.

It is unlikely that any actual player will take advantage of such a law, so the real worry exists only in the states that allow the 3rd party to sue. Those states have been mentioned earlier in this thread but here is as full a list as I can provide at the moment: Georgia, Illinois. Indiana, Kentucky, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Ohio, South Carolina and (to the extent the money recovered goes to the loser's spouse or children) Tennessee. Washington, DC also has such a law.

There are numerous ways to fight such a lawsuit, some specific to the individual state. I am optimistic that the players in this lawsuit will ultimately prevail.

But typically these types of lawsuits are not brought with the intent of taking them to trial. They are frequently brought with the intent of scaring the defendant's and getting money out of them by settling them for less than the cost of fighting them.

Given that situation, the best bet is to try and make sure you are never sued at all.

If you live in one of the states I have listed above you should be very careful about giving out actual information regarding your playing. If you can be like Isildur1 and keep everyone guessing as to who the real person is behind your screen name, that is best. Failing that, keeping your actual location of play from becoming public is also important - the publicly available records don't show whether "Skallagrim" was playing in NH or playing while traveling in Las Vegas, keep it that way.

3) This case will have an affect in all those states. If greedy folks out there discover this as a method to get "easy money" from winning poker players there will be others who will do it too. So this affects many of us, and that means it ultimately affects all of us. Keep supporting the PPA and, if you can spare the time and effort, I think everyone would appreciate it if someone wants to set up a "defense fund" for these guys and collect donations for their legal fees. The key to "winning" this case will not only be getting it dismissed in Court but also showing that we poker players are willing to put up enough of fight that the "lawyers" who would bring such cases see it costing them more than it profits them.

Skallagrim

 

Originally Posted by apestyles

Sigh, I hope this works out for everyone involved. If theres some way I can support I would like to lend a hand. Its obviously nonsense and extortion and the claims of collusion have no grounds in reality. Gl guys =/

I suggest you form a defense fund for them.....your probably the most/reliable/trustworthy/ person for it in P5's

Pettifogger ffs

 

Originally Posted by Somepokerguy

As for the guy in the lawsuit: Sorry you didnt have a house full of top players to room with that could ghost you 18 hours a day, better luck next time. GTFO.

You can't just call people cheaters without any proof.

Can all of you fucking retards who want to bitch about cheating in online poker plz do it somewhere else and stop clogging up this thread with your useless nonsense?

By "fucking retards" I clearly meant "kind gentlemen".

Also, think Adam made a fantastic point about the many of us (esp. guys like me from SC who had no idea a law like this even existed) having a dog in this fight but letting a few people foot the bill. Even the players settling or deciding it's cheaper/easier to settle is an epic fail for online poker and you can rest assured armies of greedy fucks will smell blood in the water and come after ur loot.

God Bless America

 

Originally Posted by Mournval

This reminds me a bit of this dude for some reason:

http://www.bettercallsaul.com/

Isent this guy in some tv show looks like the guy from Rules of engagement.

 

Originally Posted by Mrfreeze53

Isent this guy in some tv show looks like the guy from Rules of engagement.

It's Bob Odenkirk and he's awesome.

After reading most of this, I for one want to say bigups to jlizard for his post, it really hits a lot of important points. ppl need to be looking at the big picture here, hell I live in canada, but what tarnishes the game in X number of states effects everybody, and his point about ppl refiling needs to be pointed out, Once ppl / lawyers/ etc become aware of this, it is pretty much expected there are gonna be some ppl sitting around reading this on here, 2+2 or whatever, and say hell if he can try it i might as well scrape up some $ and try it too, I mean i play for a living and lord knows it's not exactly getting easier, the last thing the good people in poker need is scumbags filing frivolous lawsuits to chew up another slice of the pie, even if it is easier to settle out of court, get rid of the hassle, it is probably in all likelihood everyone's best interest to make sure ppl get the message that they can't just get away with it. just my 2 cents, best of luck to all involved, really cant fathom waking up to having to deal with this.

In order to claim that someone lost, shouldn't the third party scumbag who is suing be required to provide the names of the specific people who lost?

wow this is unreal to think about...I know it is a loop hole but it sounds very far fetched and pathetic..(not pathetic for the lawyer, pathetic for the plaintiff to be able to live with himself for thinking of this....)

good luck to those accused this is some silly bullshit

I hope like the one guy says, you dont even have to defend yourself and this case gets dismissed

And I like the one guys posted, illegal or not you put your money on a site that is gambling....you have to expect there is a risk of losing if not a high risk and to keep depositting is one's own choice that we all have to be accountable for in our own lives....When we dont win we cant then turn to sue to get our lost money back or else you arent gambling, you are scamming in your own actions.

Would he sue himself if he won when he first gambled? what a loser this guy is!

It was his fault every deposit he made

pathetic! this is sick to hear and again I pray this is quickly dismissed in court

 

Originally Posted by Parligod

The allegations of cheating are not whats important here. Keep in mind a complaint often throws the kitchen sink to start off and then moves on from there and I suspect thats what the plaintiff is doing. What matters is that they are using a 3rd party non-poker player to sue for "recovery" against winning poker players under a specific law. Furthermore, the amount they seek could far exceed whats being listed here. When they list specific tournaments in the complaint, it's primary goal is establish jurisdiction in a federal court (plaintiff and defendants live in different states and the amount sought exceeds $25k), the reason being that federal court often provides advantages to the out-of-state plaintiff because federal rules of civil procedure would apply. Then they sue based on a state law. As stupid many of us may see it, the goal of this law is kind of like saying "Don't gamble in our state because if you do, we'll authorize anyone to go after your winnings and then some." Thats my take on it.

Also - It's very likely a lawsuit intended to bully the defendants into settling the case. The big risk of cases like this going to trial and getting a judgment is that who knows what will happen, and thats a risk to both sides. They'd probably happily take a settlement from the defendants, then open up more lawsuits against anyone else that they can under this law. Thats the biggest concern here; a floodgate of litigation under this law.

And agreed to other posters here, it's downright embarrassing to be an American when I read crap like this.

Well put. I was tryng to get my head around the thought that actually went into this law.

Although ironically, if you were familiar with this law you could gamble and deliberately lose, knowing that you could sue the "winner" for 3x your losses. Could lead to some crazy HU games.

wut the hell ?? gl with that sht da pokrerhaus.

ok sorry if this has been mentioned but cbf to read the whole thing. so from what i can gather this guy wasnt even a poker player he's just some guy who has found some law that u can basically take anyone's gambling winnings in illinois. from what i can gather all these players are mtt grinders. and the law is if the guy who lost his money doesnt make a claim for it in 6 months, anyone else can. basically u can't take the guys winnings, you can only recoup the losses. (i'm only mentioning this stuff so if im wrong someone can tell me my facts are wrong, sorry for repeating what i assume you know).

so, my question is how can this douche put up a claim for gambling losses when mtt fields include players from jurisdictions everywhere including in other countries where gambling is legal. for instance, i live in australia, and say i lost my money in an mtt where one of the defendants played and shipped the thing lets say. how can this douche put up a claim for my losses (the defendant's winnings) when i cannot 'exercise my right to recoup my losses'. and even if there are people from illinois who played in the tourney how can they apportionate which players in the field he won the money from. this law seems to make a lot more sense for traditional sucker gambling like online slot machines or something where u put ur money in and lose it to the slot machine company.

 

Originally Posted by beorn22

It literally makes zero sense that he can purposefully partake in an activity (illegal or not) knowing full well the risks, and then sue when he loses. Imagine if stock traders could do this! Whoops, I had all my money with Enron but they exploded and now I want it all back.

GL to all involved.

That's the sick part; if I'm understanding it right, he can sue on behalf of everyone else who played against them, he didn't even have to play himself.