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I'm a donk, or am I?

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  1. damnstraight damnstraight is offline

    Ottawa
    Canada

    Posts: 684
    Joined: Jun 08

    May 8th, 2009 (5/8/2009 8:19pm)

    pokerstars Game #27977132003: Tournament #160514648, $5.00+$0.50 Omaha Pot Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2009/05/08 19:45:55 ET
    Table '160514648 6' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
    Seat 1: saynotoelmo (4010 in chips)
    Seat 2: DrOldSchool (1280 in chips)
    Seat 3: DaBearsBall (2560 in chips)
    Seat 4: bluemond07 (1970 in chips)
    Seat 5: maruy62 (1580 in chips)
    Seat 6: weidman01 (1350 in chips)
    Seat 7: stdrago03 (1410 in chips)
    Seat 8: DoubleMeDonk (1470 in chips)
    Seat 9: papaloni (1250 in chips)
    weidman01: posts small blind 15
    stdrago03: posts big blind 30
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to DoubleMeDonk [9c 6c 5s 7d]
    DoubleMeDonk: calls 30
    papaloni: calls 30
    saynotoelmo: folds
    DrOldSchool: folds
    DaBearsBall: raises 135 to 165
    bluemond07: folds
    maruy62: folds
    weidman01: folds
    stdrago03: calls 135
    DoubleMeDonk: calls 135
    papaloni: calls 135
    *** FLOP *** [3d Td 4c]
    stdrago03: checks
    DoubleMeDonk: checks
    papaloni: bets 675
    DaBearsBall: raises 1720 to 2395 and is all-in
    stdrago03: folds
    DoubleMeDonk: calls 1305 and is all-in
    papaloni: calls 410 and is all-in
    Uncalled bet (1090) returned to DaBearsBall
    *** TURN *** [3d Td 4c] [9h]
    *** RIVER *** [3d Td 4c 9h] [6s]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    DoubleMeDonk: shows [9c 6c 5s 7d] (a straight, Three to Seven)
    DaBearsBall: shows [As Qs 7c Ac] (a pair of Aces)
    DoubleMeDonk collected 440 from side pot
    papaloni: shows [Tc 8c Ts 8h] (three of a kind, Tens)
    DoubleMeDonk collected 3930 from main pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 4370 Main pot 3930. Side pot 440. | Rake 0
    Board [3d Td 4c 9h 6s]
    Seat 1: saynotoelmo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: DrOldSchool folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: DaBearsBall showed [As Qs 7c Ac] and lost with a pair of Aces
    Seat 4: bluemond07 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: maruy62 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: weidman01 (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 7: stdrago03 (big blind) folded on the Flop
    Seat 8: DoubleMeDonk showed [9c 6c 5s 7d] and won (4370) with a straight, Three to Seven
    Seat 9: papaloni showed [Tc 8c Ts 8h] and lost with three of a kind, Tens

    The guy with aces whined for 20 minutes after this, up until the point where he was eliminated. The player with trip 10's had a few choice words from the rail too. Personally I thought it was great hand to play against a player I suspected of having aces. There's a flush out there I know but I figured I was going to be getting 3 to 1 on my money and it was worth a gamble.

    Donk play or standard?

    When I ran the odds afterwords, I was only a slight dog on the flop, 48 to 42. Aces were a huge dog obviously.
  2. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

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    May 8th, 2009 (5/8/2009 8:24pm) in reply to damnstraight

    I think this is pretty terrible...not as bad as the guy with AA played it, but bad enough.

    You're odds are right if you KNOW nobody's got a flush draw...which I would always assume based on the action.
  3. Stocker Stocker is offline

    Hillsboro, OR
    United States

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    May 8th, 2009 (5/8/2009 9:41pm) in reply to damnstraight

    donkalicious
  4. damnstraight damnstraight is offline

    Ottawa
    Canada

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    May 8th, 2009 (5/8/2009 9:48pm) in reply to grapsfan

     
    Originally Posted by grapsfan View Post


    I think this is pretty terrible...not as bad as the guy with AA played it, but bad enough.

    You're odds are right if you KNOW nobody's got a flush draw...which I would always assume based on the action.

    Basically, if there is no flush draw out there I have 13 outs to the nut straight. If it's out there I am down to 9. Worse case scenario is the guy with trips has the flush draw too, then I am not getting the right price to call but almost. If the guy with aces has it, then I am not that big of a dog. Since I have a diamond he only has 8 outs to the nut flush and 2 to make top set. A lot of times they won't have it at all so I am willing to race here for the price i was getting.
    Thread Starter
  5. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

    Posts: 7,979
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    May 8th, 2009 (5/8/2009 10:01pm) in reply to damnstraight

    So you've got 9 outs to your wrap, which more than matches the price laid by the pot. Figure in the redraw outs to a full house and a flush, and you don't.

    But that's OK. Keep figuring nobody ever has it. I'm not even sure why you asked about the hand if you're convinced you played it fine.
  6. famousdave famousdave is offline

    Sauk Rapids, MN
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    May 8th, 2009 (5/8/2009 11:06pm) in reply to damnstraight

    DONKEY
  7. Fkeplastictrees Fkeplastictrees is offline

    Towson, MD
    United States

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    May 8th, 2009 (5/8/2009 11:21pm) in reply to damnstraight

    Hmmmm...it's not pretty but I'm not sure as bad as others think. DaBears hand may as well be turned up; particularly in a $5 PLO donkfest. The other dude is clearly calling after he leads at pot. Have to assume that his hand is at least a set and/or a combo draw that is at least as strong as yours. I would be much more comfortable with your hand obviously if you have a flush draw to go along with the wrap.

    Generally, however, getting all your chips int he middle at 15/30 with no backup draws is pretty spewtastic.
  8. hushpuckena hushpuckena is offline

    Natchez, MS
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    May 8th, 2009 (5/8/2009 11:44pm) in reply to damnstraight

    You could have done better here by not playing 9765 at all; when coming in with this type of rundown, you don't want to have the gap be at the top of the sequence. I'd much rather play 9874, though it's a double gap, because it's on the bottom of this rundown.

    On this flop, when all the money goes in, do you really believe you're getting the right price, based on what the opponents are likely to have for the way they're playing? A thirteen-way wrap, with two other players, and you having no diamond draw, can come to no good at all in general. The only reason you have any equity to speak of in this pot is because neither of the other players had the flush draw. Give either that much, and you're toasted.
  9. calebku33 calebku33 is offline

    Athens, GA
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    May 9th, 2009 (5/9/2009 12:34am) in reply to hushpuckena

    fold pre.
  10. damnstraight damnstraight is offline

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    May 9th, 2009 (5/9/2009 12:58am) in reply to hushpuckena

    Thanks for the comments, I appreciate it.

    FWIW, here is my reasoning. In this tournament you only start with 1500 in chips so you can't wait around for the perfect situation to get your money in. Limp in a few times raise a couple of pots or call a couple of raises, miss the flop and and you start to get short. So many times i have raised up hands like double suited aces with broadway undercards, or a hand like KQJT, completely missed the flop and had to toss them. The idea situation obviously would be to flop the nuts and have a draw to an even better hand but that doesn't happen a lot.

    When dabears raised it up before the flop I'm reasonably sure he has aces. The hand I had is the type i want to have when I think someone has aces or kings or broadways. It's not perfect but it is good enough to suck out a hand like that and it's easy to toss if I miss. I know from experience in these low buy ins that many players will raise their aces even when they are not suited or only one is and their undercards are crappy. Some players will raise with 3 aces. I am considering all this when I call. As far as i'm concerned, aces suck ass is Omaha and are commonly overplayed. I'm guilty of this too at times.

    When the flop comes with 2 diamonds I know there is only 8 outs max to the flush because I have one. I also know that when player one pots it he doesn't have to have a huge hand or draw to do this, but I'm not dismissing it either. It's possible he made the nuts or any set, but possibly even 2 pair or something like KK with or with out the 2nd nut flush draw or worse. Player 2 shoves all in so he either likes the flop too or thinks his aces are still good. Basically there is a couple of cases where I am going to be in really bad shape but still almost getting the right price and quite a few where I am getting more than the right odds to call. I don't like a set with a flush draw, unless both players are drawing to it. A flush draw with the straight draw to go with it sucks too but again from past experience I know neither player has to be that strong to do what they did so I was willing to gamble.

    One last word. I just sucked out of a $33 buyin on the bubble. I have middle pair and a wrap my opponent has top pair; jacks, and pocket 7's and a 2, no flush or straight draw and bets this terribly weak hand when we are playing 5 way. That hand isn't worth seeing a flop with let alone taking a stab at the pot but this is a donk god. Anyways i shove what's left of my chips. All I need is another pair, nevermind the straight draw and i got him but I miss and jj with 7 kicker holds up.

    That's why I made the call i did in the other game, knowing that a lot of the times this is what you are facing.
    Thread Starter
  11. calebku33 calebku33 is offline

    Athens, GA
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    May 9th, 2009 (5/9/2009 1:28am) in reply to damnstraight

    You had it all figured out before you posted. Waste of a post, imo.

    You've justified it to yourself and are convinced you're not a donk...no real point in asking.
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