I think the problem was reading TJ's book, because after reading it my play has been tighter than ever - and it's killing my game. The problem now is that I can't seem to loosen my game up at all. Just to give a few examples (all around a 8 - 10 player table) :

- I'll fold small pairs from the first few seats
- Won't call raises in the middle or late positon unless I have a big pair, or a big ace
- I won't make moves from the button at all because I know I'll get a loose caller or two...and even if I do raise it preflop, if I get even one caller, I think I'm behind in the hand already and mentally give up the pot unless I hit the flop hard, unless I have a monster hand.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do to loosen up my game so I'm not just sitting there folding hand after hand?? Yes, I know patience is good, but not when you're only playing about 15-20% of the hands dealt. Maybe it's just a mental thing and I need to overcome it...

Reading TJ's books is the #1 cause of Weak/Tight play in my opinion. You have to read the NL section in Super/System (and I have to say, I prefer the writing of the section in SS1 to SS2, but either will do.)

Having said that, playing 15%-20% of hands isn't really bad, as long as you're then agressively trying to win them all. If you just check/fold whenever you miss the flop, you're in for a lot of finishes just out of the money.

Remember, you're not just playing your cards, you're playing your position, chip stack, and the other players. When you're not getting cards, look for opportunities to get in and take smaller pots while minimizing your risk.

Supermoves, I think you make a good point here. I've definitely experienced the situation where the level of tightness precludes making any real money. I've also gone too far the other way (or just had horrible timing) and run into big hands when I was taking only "decent" cards too far.

Can you write a little more on this one? For instance, what do you consider a worthwhile holding to play in position if there are 2x, 3x or 4x raises in front of you?

I understand what you are saying. I was just trying to get a sense of what types of hands you might be more inclined to take a flyer with than others. 57 suited makes sense on occassion, but would make the same call with KT?

If you do and once again the flop comes rags, you can obviously play it the same way you suggested with 57. But if a K or T hits and you're bet into it starts feeling like trouble.

I'll go for terrible stretches with nothing better in position but J4 suited or Q7 suited at best. Do you still advocate making a play if the hands are that bad? I've always considered them complete trash, but then again I've bubbled due to short stack syndrome far more often that I'd like.

Murph that is too funny, in a sad way: when I read TJ's book my game did the *exact* same thing. My worst month of playing so far was the month after I read that damnable book.

In my opinion TJ gives you advice without the knowledge of why when and how to implement it. Try to forget everything he said.

Once you've forgotten it, go buy Harrington on Hold'em vol1. If you already own it, read it. if you've already read it, read it again. If you've read it twice and are still struggling, make sure you're thinking through all of the problems as best as you can before reading his solutions. Once you read his solutions, make sure you understand why he came to those conclusions (even if you don't agree with them)

The whole book is about what to be thinking about when making decisions in poker, and that is the only advice worth listening to in my opinion. So really it isn't a book you should "read" but rather one you need to interract with. If you put a lot of effort into solving the problems in the book and understanding when and why to implement what you've read, I guarantee your game will be back on track.

Good luck!
Bill

I don't f*ck around when I'm snowboarding...."I ain't skeered" when I'm hitting the jumps, or grinding the rails...

My opinion, too tight is a stage that you go through as a natural progression through poker. There will become a point really soon when you have the confidence to play marginal hands out of position because you realize that your starting hand is only about 2/3 of the game. Soon, you'll start to recognize situations in poker, not just starting hands. You'll realize that it doesn't matter what you have so much as what they THINK YOU have and what THEY DO have. This is totally a confidence thing which will come with experience. In the WSOP main event, I laid down AK after flopping A7J and turning a Q because I knew I was beat. When you can make lay downs when you know you are beat, then you can loosen up.

Believe it or not, when I started playing WPT main events is when my style became looser. I know that sounds strange because you hear guys like Doyle and TJ talk about AQ and KQ like they are 7 2. Read through the live update logs for the WSOP and notice the hands being played - I think most people are surprised to see all of the people winning and busting out with hands that the books tell you to fold. Situations dictate the game a lot.

In the Bellagio 1k on Sunday, I was in about 17th or 18th chip position with 19 players left and top 18 getting paid. I was in the BB with A8o when the SB raised it to 4x BB. Because of the bubble situation and me being a short stack, I felt that the SB would raise with anything just to steal the blinds. I played the situation and pushed all-in with about 90% comfort level that A high was good and the guy would probably only call about 70% of the time. The SB did call me with QJ and all of the other players from other tables came around to watch me become the bubble boy. My A held up, I doubled up to ressurrect my tourney, and got a very nice compliment from TJ Cloutier about recognizing the situation and taking advantage of it. The point of the story is to start thinking situationally.

From the cutoff seat, open with a raise with any suited A or K, any suited connectors, any pair, any two broadways, any one-gappers. If someone calls you, at least you have a shot at flopping something big. You will win the blinds probably half the time against good competition and the other half you've got control of the pot with cards that can be sneaky if they flop right. If someone goes over the top of you, believe them and fold. It's nice to have someone itching to go over the top of you when you do have a good hand. Experiment with it because this is a good way to start loosening up. Later on, you'll be good enough to play 72o UTG ;-)

If you enter a tourney with 400 people and you only rely on your good cards to get you through it, you will not win very often. Playing tight you will still win more than the average joe, but maybe not enough to make MTT's very profitable.

I bet most people have busted out of more tourneys with AA, KK, AK, and AQ than with any other 20 hands........

One last thing, if you are not calling moderate raises from late position or limping in from early position with small to medium pocket pairs, you are playing with a half-loaded revolver. Sets are like armor penetrating bullets. If you and the other player both have more than 12x-15x his bet, take a stab at getting all of his chips. I don't like to open with a raise from early position with small pairs because then I can't call a re-raise. If I limp and someone bumps it 3x my bet, I can still decide to take a flop.

Hope some of this helps you.

Yes, I would have to concur that Mr Nutz's postings and articles are intelligent, insightful and thorough. Probably an excellent player to hang onto and become mentored. I would watch him very carefully if he shows up in your MTT room or any poker room.

I would classify TJ as oldschool "tight". No good player plays ABC every minute of their life. But TJ is the best example of a tight player who makes a ton. It is not the preferred method of many at the moment, but if it is the style and image that works for you--you CAN make lots of money.

I am a very tight player and I do now and have always consistently won in both ring games and tournys for the past 15 years, including many major tournament wins, and a TON of other minor tourny wins and one to four a month online. At times I do not cash as high as a looser player, but just as many times I make a significant cash when the loose player does not. I can limp along the bottom of the leaderboard for an entire tournament.

My only point is--MANY difffernt styles can and do win in Poker. You must try several styles until the one that best fits your personality shines through in the win column most sucessfully.

And whichever style you choose, you must always correctly read play and learn other players styles and adjust your play accordingly.

i feel ye pain i too once playin toooo tight(ducks ass tight,and thats water tight)

wat i did was go down to the local safeways strip off,veg aisle normally so as to blend in.

pick out a nice big juicey melon,set up pyramid of tin cans,(sweetcorn pref cozs they ting when hit@)

and have yo-self a spot of naked bowling,,it works a treat i play only startin hands now that have numbers and pictures on em .

hope it helps gl and just enjoy.....its only a game.

gush ;).....gamefuly employed

Tight Ass Super Philosophy--==--===--==

You can NOT win first place, if you do NOT get to the MONEY!!!!

It is only because I know you're a smart-ass that I take your post in good humor. I don't kiss anyone's ass, but it sounds like you want someone to kiss yours. You must be the middle child, right? :)