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Been working on my late game MTT play and this spot came up. We're late enough but my main objective here is to amass as much chips for a final table run. no one at the table is getting out of line. i'm wondering if my thought process here is correct and if this is a leak or i made the right move. here is the hand
Stage #2008186434 Tourney ID 4886979 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 400 - 2009-11-19 21:15:33 (ET)
Table: 28 (Real Money) Seat #4 is the dealer
Seat 1 - CHUCKJAGER (11,025 in chips)
Seat 2 - JMAN420 (4,738 in chips)
Seat 3 - BOSTONGOLFER2 (2,932 in chips)
Seat 4 - PKRSHARK7891 (6,127 in chips)
Seat 5 - IPRINT (3,659 in chips)
Seat 6 - DAWG1964 (13,127 in chips)
Seat 7 - FUNGHETTO21 (10,411 in chips)
Seat 8 - MYTURN2WINN (14,339 in chips)
Seat 9 - PAKA509 (2,608 in chips)
CHUCKJAGER - Ante 50
JMAN420 - Ante 50
BOSTONGOLFER2 - Ante 50
PKRSHARK7891 - Ante 50
IPRINT - Ante 50
DAWG1964 - Ante 50
FUNGHETTO21 - Ante 50
MYTURN2WINN - Ante 50
PAKA509 - Ante 50
IPRINT - Posts small blind 200
DAWG1964 - Posts big blind 400
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to CHUCKJAGER [Qd Kd]
FUNGHETTO21 - Folds
MYTURN2WINN - Calls 400
PAKA509 - Folds
CHUCKJAGER - Raises 1,425 to 1,425
JMAN420 - All-In(Raise) 4,688 to 4,688
BOSTONGOLFER2 - Folds
PKRSHARK7891 - Folds
IPRINT - Folds
DAWG1964 - Folds
MYTURN2WINN - Folds
CHUCKJAGER - ???
now right when i got dealt kqs i knew i was gonna raise. i figured about 2.5x or so and i was willing to lay it down if one of the smaller stacks shoved all in. now myturn2winn limped and had been limping a decent amount with weak holdings as i observed in the past hour or so at the table. i decide to 3 bet and do so. jman insta shoves here.
my range for him has me beat. his showing a relativly strong ace or a pocket pair. no way do i have him making this move with kq or worse. so in most cases i'm behind. however i'm getting pretty good pot odds to call and this being late in the mtt i really wnat to make a move. i know i'm not going to be out if i lose and i figure it was worth the risk to make the call even thought i am pretty sure his range beats mine.
any input in this situation? how would you play it and why? thanks for the help. -
I think in this case you have to call... there is just too much in the pot. Getting around 2:1 I'm calling w/ KQ suited every time unless the villain has been an absolute nit.
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I'd call, but I think I 'should' fold, since I'm still healthy after. Better than losing my FT run vs JJ, AT, or a pure suckout. I don't feel we're totally ahead here. Close, but not totally.
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I don't think we're "ahead" here ever, but getting better than 2:1 + a little dead money in the pot, we're good enough to call I think.
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any thoughts on my decision to 3bet here?
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Technically, I don't think it's a 3bet. A limper doesnt count as a bet, it's a call, so you're the 2bet and the pusher is the 3bet. I could be wrong tough...
In any event, I don't mind it. It's an okay move. I also don't love it... But since you know the original caller is probably weak, this is an okay move. -
Well I'm either too nitty or too stupid, but I disagree about having to call here. The pot odds are nice, but I hate KQ, although I feel a little bit better about it because it's suited. Still, I'm pretty sure I'd fold. I don't think he's that weak, I think he's got you beat pf. If you called and won, congrats.
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thanks for the input guys. he was ahead with AK i believe and it held up.
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Should have folded pre or raised a much more modest amount. Here you are raising ~3.5x, even though theres a limper behind I don't raise anymore than like 2.5-2.7x honestly if I'm even getting involved in the pot. In your position you should be folding off KQ before even becoming involved in the pot; but now that you've opened for way too much and getting 2:1 you're pretty much priced in and you can't range Jman420 much tighter than AJ+, 88+, KQ and as played call>fold.
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According to a tight 9+ range you should call i agree with the the 2 to 1....and yes i agree shoulda folded pre.
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the pot odds are nice but if he is sure that he is beat i think the pot odds become almost irrelevant and it becomes more about chip preservation.....villain had the perfect chip stack for a 3 bet shove.....the best case scenario is a flip
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Before entering a pot in such a situation, taking into consideration the stack sizes of the remaining players left behind you is critical. Four of the remaining players in this particular hand had half- your stack meaning you could have gotten away with raising little enough to commit them while leaving yourself equity to fold. As for the player who limped in front, a call by him (and/or the BB) out of position may have given you an opportunity to exploit their looseness on or after the flop given you have position and a decent hand. I think a standard 2.5xbb raise in this situation, following a fold, would have been correct; however, you were committed to call after jmans 3bet all in.
Dom -
*gross spot but never fold- if u open uve gotta call 12 bbs shove with kqs- prolly never ahead but raise call there is def +ev
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