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Interesting hand 3 handed 18 man sng

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  1. JustGivr JustGivr is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

    Posts: 632
    Joined: Mar 05

    Mar 12th, 2010 (3/12/2010 3:10pm)

    pokerstars Game #41060882180: Tournament #251993827, $3.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (400/800) - 2010/03/12 12:34:55 PT [2010/03/12 15:34:55 ET]
    Table '251993827 1' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
    Seat 5: whowantsome (2060 in chips)
    Seat 7: Don dlH (14900 in chips)
    Seat 8: KeepGivinr (10040 in chips)
    whowantsome: posts the ante 50
    Don dlH: posts the ante 50
    KeepGivinr: posts the ante 50
    Don dlH: posts small blind 400
    KeepGivinr: posts big blind 800
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to KeepGivinr [Ac Jh]
    whowantsome: folds
    Don dlH: raises 14050 to 14850 and is all-in

    Villain seems to be a solid/smart player. Chooses spots wisely, understands sng concepts, and knows how to work the big stack. With that being said, hes also observed that Im a solid player as well. Neither of us have really gotten out of line, especially against each other. WWYD?
  2. okse54 okse54 is offline

    New York, NY
    United States

    Posts: 3,692
    Joined: Nov 07

    Mar 12th, 2010 (3/12/2010 3:14pm) in reply to JustGivr

    sadly this is probably a fold even if hes smart enough to shove ATC
     
  3. 13Jayhawk13 13Jayhawk13 is offline

    Olathe, KS
    United States

    Posts: 761
    Joined: Feb 08

    Mar 12th, 2010 (3/12/2010 3:30pm) in reply to okse54

     
    Originally Posted by okse54 View Post

    sadly this is probably a fold even if hes smart enough to shove ATC

    This has got to be true, but at the same time, its a $3.40 and I sometimes value giving the old FU to someone more than I do the 10% increase in moneys. Now if this were a $12 or higher, I have a bit more value in money than I do giving an FU. So, I might snap this one off knowing that I'm in great shape the vast majority of time and I'm giving the shorty free money that he'll just put right back into the games that i play.

    Idk, this is certainly a fold from ICM perspective, but there are certain situations, where I intentionally ignore ICM in an effort to make people know they can't push me around (if this is a reg that you see all the time, there may be more value in snapping).
  4. Jennifear Jennifear is offline

    Niagara Falls, NY
    United States

    Posts: 10,222
    Joined: Nov 05

    Mar 12th, 2010 (3/12/2010 4:00pm) in reply to JustGivr

    IF he is indeed a solid smart player, then it's damn close.

    Here's the Nash Equilibrium for this spot:

    http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sn...amp;s8=&s9=
    <TABLE class=simple cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=3 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD>SB</TD><TD><TD><TD>100.0%, Any two <<What he should be shoving.</TD></TR><TR><TD><TD>BB</TD><TD><TD>3.2%, 88+ <<Your ICM-perfect calling range against his shove.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    The problem with this scenario is that the intangibles work in favor of calling. Here are the intangibles:

    - If you call and win, ICM underestimates your new equity as you will have the chance to bully (albeit for a short time most likely).

    - If you fold, ICM overestimates your truw equity as he wil be able to continue to bully you. Here's what I mean:

    If you fold:

    <TABLE border=1><TBODY><TR><TH>Player</TH><TH>Chips</TH><TH>Prob 1st</TH><TH>Prob 2nd</TH><TH>Prob 3rd</TH><TH>Equity</TH></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>Hero
    </TD><TD>9190</TD><TD>0.3404</TD><TD>0.5075</TD><TD>0.1521</TD><TD>$17.22</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>Chipleader
    </TD><TD>15800</TD><TD>0.5852</TD><TD>0.3490</TD><TD>0.0658</TD><TD>$19.00</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>Shorty
    </TD><TD>2010</TD><TD>0.0744</TD><TD>0.1434</TD><TD>0.7821</TD><TD>$12.38</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    then ICM will assign $19 equity to the chipleader. That's because he has 58.52% of the chips so he will win 58.52% of the time. However, if he is able to continue to use his leverage, he's really going to win 60-65% of the time, so his true equity is larger. That equity is coming mostly from you!

    Similarly, if you call/win:

    <TABLE border=1><TBODY><TR><TH>Player</TH><TH>Chips</TH><TH>Prob 1st</TH><TH>Prob 2nd</TH><TH>Prob 3rd</TH><TH>Equity</TH></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>Hero
    </TD><TD>20130</TD><TD>0.7456</TD><TD>0.2236</TD><TD>0.0308</TD><TD>$20.06</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD>Player 2
    </TD><TD>4860</TD><TD>0.1800</TD><TD>0.5419</TD><TD>0.2781</TD><TD>$15.67</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow><TD>Player 3
    </TD><TD>2010</TD><TD>0.0744</TD><TD>0.2345</TD><TD>0.6911</TD><TD>$12.87</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    ...then you'll win more than 74.56% of the time due to your ability to control the situation.

    This moves AJo from an easy fold, to a borderline hand. Call=Fold imo.

    Anyway, if you aren't 100% positive that he is shoving exactly any two cards, then fold this.

    Hope that helps!
  5. JustGivr JustGivr is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

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    Mar 12th, 2010 (3/12/2010 4:25pm) in reply to Jennifear

    Ummm marry me? ;)

    Thanks for the response. Id like to get a few more responses before I explain my thoughts, and give the results.
    Thread Starter
  6. MDG0RD0N MDG0RD0N is offline

    Posts: 401
    Joined: Dec 08

    Mar 13th, 2010 (3/13/2010 3:48am) in reply to JustGivr

    This is a snap fold AINEC, no $3.40 player is shoving anywhere close to ATC here. Only time I'd call is if I wanted to spite a friend and didn't mind spewing.
  7. SloHand SloHand is offline

    United States

    Posts: 372
    Joined: Oct 07

    Mar 13th, 2010 (3/13/2010 4:00am) in reply to MDG0RD0N

    I snap fist pump high five call here, but I only play 45s and I spite call waaaay too much
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