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Interesting Hand with Top 2 pair vs capable player...

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  1. gutshtallin gutshtallin is offline

    Posts: 1,238
    Joined: Oct 07

    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 1:37pm)

    No reads on villian, but i recognize him and know he is a capable player.

    Full Tilt Poker Game #15814593732: $19,500 Guarantee (115775150), Table 16 - 120/240 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:16:51 ET - 2009/11/05
    Seat 1: jambeek (8,029)
    Seat 2: kersepit (4,027)
    Seat 3: 32Beat (6,840)
    Seat 4: crouts (17,849)
    Seat 5: Yeshaya (4,649)
    Seat 6: eux2 (7,340)
    Seat 7: ozic83 (4,170)
    Seat 8: ryanwelch (12,731)
    Seat 9: karen-tuz (8,769)
    jambeek antes 25
    kersepit antes 25
    32Beat antes 25
    crouts antes 25
    Yeshaya antes 25
    eux2 antes 25
    ozic83 antes 25
    ryanwelch antes 25
    karen-tuz antes 25
    kersepit posts the small blind of 120
    32Beat posts the big blind of 240
    The button is in seat #1
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to ryanwelch [Kc Qh]
    crouts raises to 580
    Yeshaya folds
    eux2 folds
    ozic83 folds
    ryanwelch calls 580
    karen-tuz folds
    jambeek has 15 seconds left to act
    jambeek folds
    kersepit folds
    32Beat calls 340
    *** FLOP *** [4c Qd 8s]
    32Beat checks
    crouts checks
    ryanwelch has 15 seconds left to act
    ryanwelch bets 1,440
    32Beat has 15 seconds left to act
    32Beat folds
    crouts calls 1,440
    *** TURN *** [4c Qd 8s] [2c]
    crouts checks
    ryanwelch has 15 seconds left to act
    ryanwelch checks
    *** RIVER *** [4c Qd 8s 2c] [Kh]
    crouts has 15 seconds left to act
    crouts bets 2,950

    Now, my question is this. Is the river a call or a shove?? His utg raise and flop chk was a little weird. However my hand is disguised as well by chking the turn. My shove range gets value from a very small range of hands. The range of hands that beat me are very small as well tho.

    Anyways, what do you guys think about the hand??

    Shove or call?
     11
  2. cchan cchan is offline

    Urbana, IL
    United States

    Posts: 1,785
    Joined: Dec 05

    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 1:38pm) in reply to gutshtallin

    i shove. looks like ak. since you gave a free card on teh turn.

    but then again, i suck at poker
  3. JDsmith9 JDsmith9 is offline

    Greensboro, NC
    United States

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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 1:41pm) in reply to gutshtallin

    hmm. well you're beat by 44 and 88. you beat his random floats OOP and pocket aces. Based off of ranges you should shove but against a capable player i think i just call cause i think like 98% of the time its a set or air

    edit: misread HH. he won't hardly ever have air here cause he raised PF and c/c on that dry ass board. shit might even be a fold lol
     
  4. bob2bob bob2bob is offline

    Henderson, NV
    United States

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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 1:53pm) in reply to gutshtallin

    if you shove would he call you w/ AK or AA? just call imo
     
  5. CayneB CayneB is offline

    Littleton, CO
    United States

    Posts: 448
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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 1:56pm) in reply to gutshtallin

    I think this is just a call, imo.
  6. coolhandkev coolhandkev is offline

    IL
    United States

    Posts: 5,978
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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 2:01pm) in reply to CayneB

    I would just call. I don't think you get paid off with a raise with any hand other than maybe AK, which would also probably fold and I think would be a strange check/call on flop. Sets are in his range as played for sure.
  7. Hecklerz Hecklerz is offline

    Canada

    Posts: 1,316
    Joined: Mar 07

    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 2:09pm) in reply to gutshtallin

    I'd say call as he has you covered and there are several possible hands that have you beat.
  8. TigersWood TigersWood is offline

    VA
    United States

    Posts: 511
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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 2:09pm) in reply to gutshtallin

    if he's a capable player, he's prolly not callin a shove with anything you beat...so i guess we just call and make sure he isn't working a monster...
  9. B_O_K_E B_O_K_E is offline

    Columbus, OH
    United States

    Posts: 3,976
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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 2:11pm) in reply to gutshtallin

    Call>Fold>Jam
     
  10. happyking happyking is offline

    Minehead
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 64
    Joined: Sep 06

    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 2:27pm) in reply to coolhandkev

    i likes a lil min raise here i does i know thats not what u asked but i dont think he can pay u off all in without beating you but i think u are a head and can get some value for it it.
    your hand is well hidden especially with the check on the turn and i dont think the fact hes capable is too much of a worry- if anything i think it adds to the possibility he is just sensing weakness and representing a little.. ak?aq?kq? poss even jq? jj-? did ya see it in the end then? i think u called which is also good =)
  11. benvo123 benvo123 is offline

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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 2:35pm) in reply to happyking

    i just call to solidify my nitty image
    495 
  12. gutshtallin gutshtallin is offline

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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 2:43pm) in reply to gutshtallin

    I wasnt paying much attention to this tourney cuz i was playin cash. And ended up shoving. But after i thought about the hand.. I think its 100% a call. A shove is terrible vs a good player. However, had he bet the flop and i calld. And the turn went chk chk. I think a shove is much more profitable.
     11
    Thread Starter
  13. swright10 swright10 is offline

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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 2:45pm) in reply to benvo123

    I can't imagine any hand he plays that way that you beat and calls your shove.
  14. JohnnyBelow JohnnyBelow is offline

    Kirkenes
    Norway

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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 2:47pm) in reply to gutshtallin

     
    Originally Posted by gutshtallin View Post

    I wasnt paying much attention to this tourney cuz i was playin cash. And ended up shoving. But after i thought about the hand.. I think its 100% a call. A shove is terrible vs a good player. However, had he bet the flop and i calld. And the turn went chk chk. I think a shove is much more profitable.

    Sounds like he had a set? What did he show up with?

    Edit : A set seems very unlike tho as he checked first twice.

    I`d just call fwiw. And I agree that a shove would make more sense if he bet flop and check turn.
     1
  15. gutshtallin gutshtallin is offline

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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 2:48pm) in reply to JohnnyBelow

     
    Originally Posted by JohnnyBelow View Post

    Sounds like he had a set? What did he show up with?

    I`d just call fwiw. And I agree that a shove would make more sense if he bet flop and check turn.

    He had top set of QQ.
     11
    Thread Starter
  16. TigersWood TigersWood is offline

    VA
    United States

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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 3:03pm) in reply to gutshtallin

     
    Originally Posted by gutshtallin View Post

    He had top set of QQ.

    KKK top set tho.
  17. XCappucinoX1 XCappucinoX1 is offline

    Somerset, MA
    United States

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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 3:54pm) in reply to TigersWood

    Id just call.
     
  18. darkhawk-200 darkhawk-200 is offline

    United States

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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 4:03pm) in reply to XCappucinoX1

    top set makes sense. I don't see what he check/call, check/check and lead river with that would call your river shove that u beat.

    His line smells like miss draws and sets or random bluffs. You're either ahead or crushed.
     1
  19. bazeman bazeman is offline

    Cincinnati, OH
    United States

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    Nov 5th, 2009 (11/5/2009 4:09pm) in reply to gutshtallin

    i dont see a hand hes calling you with thats worse that your hand.. i probably would just call because of that...he prob folds to a shove unless you are beat...weird line though with raise pre and check call flop...usually monster or like jj or tens but then why would he bet river and turn those hands into a bluff or maybe hes trying to get thin value? idk weird spot for sure...too much confusion for me to shove id just call.
     
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