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Interesting river spot at 25/50nl

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  1. ahh_snap ahh_snap is offline

    United States

    Posts: 1,353
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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 7:34pm)

    villain is play2kill, a top 25/50 nl player

    Seat 1: Nils Thorson ($5,000)
    Seat 2: fox48 ($8,480)
    Seat 3: jenn415 ($5,000)
    Seat 4: ahh_snap ($5,050)
    Seat 5: jcmoussasux ($5,000), is sitting out
    Seat 6: play2kill ($5,147)
    fox48 posts the small blind of $25
    jenn415 posts the big blind of $50
    The button is in seat #1
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to ahh_snap [2c 2h]
    ahh_snap raises to $175
    play2kill has 15 seconds left to act
    play2kill calls $175
    Nils Thorson folds
    fox48 folds
    jenn415 has 15 seconds left to act
    jenn415 calls $125
    *** FLOP *** [4d Ac Tc]
    jenn415 checks
    ahh_snap bets $400
    play2kill calls $400
    jenn415 folds
    *** TURN *** [4d Ac Tc] [2s]
    ahh_snap bets $1,000
    play2kill calls $1,000
    *** RIVER *** [4d Ac Tc 2s] [7c]
    ahh_snap:

    I have approx 3400 left and pot size is 3400ish
  2. Ship Happens Ship Happens is offline

    Taylor, MI
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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 7:38pm) in reply to ahh_snap

    c/c i guess
    1
  3. xDragonFire xDragonFire is offline

    Lebanon, TN
    United States

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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 7:39pm) in reply to Ship Happens

    that was my first instinct, since i imagine play would rep the flush here, possibly shove? but im a low limit donk so u wouldnt want to hear my opinion
  4. jalman1 jalman1 is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 7:39pm) in reply to Ship Happens

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" bgColor=#ffffff border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#eeeedd><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top> </TD><TD>Re(1): Interesting river spot at 25/50nl
    by Ship Happens on 8/5/2007 18:38 </TD><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><NOBR> </NOBR></TD><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD></TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD bgColor=#ffffff></TD><TD colSpan=2><TABLE cellPadding=2 border=0 celspacing="0"><TBODY><TR><TD>c/c i guess
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    107 3
  5. pariah pariah is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 7:45pm) in reply to ahh_snap

    what happens if we make a blocking bet?
  6. mattg1983 mattg1983 is offline buying action

    Round Rock, TX
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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 7:46pm) in reply to ahh_snap

    as a tournament shove monkey i would just shove, beat me chest and grunt, and see what happens. But thats just me ;0
     12
  7. Zota15 Zota15 is offline

    Orlando, FL
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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 7:49pm) in reply to mattg1983

    I think a shove might be best here too, since it makes it look like we are bluffing since we just blindly shoved into a scare card, he could easily look you up with an ace. If you are going to check/pay off his occasional flush anyway, then might as well bet it yourself for when he has a worse hand.
  8. stlouis6 stlouis6 is offline

    Bloomington, IL
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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 7:49pm) in reply to Ship Happens

    i think c/call is worst option bc I think he rarely will ever bet a worse hand here when checked to but he might call with one. I haven't really played with play2kill very much but I think he is fairly tight? and v good. I think betting is better then c/calling and check/folding might be the best play depending on how nitty he is. It seems hard to find a good bet size tho.
     
  9. mattk1981 mattk1981 is offline

    Marlborough, MA
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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 7:50pm) in reply to xDragonFire

    im having trouble coming up with hands you are beating that call a big bet here

    c/c looks right, v interested how you played it
  10. hanker307 hanker307 is offline

    Boston, MA
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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 7:51pm) in reply to mattg1983

    c/c I believe

    Reasoning: There are a lot of hands that you beat that will make a river bet here, probably any ace / two pair (though i'm not sure he would be c/c'ing all the way with the ace, I don't know how villan plays) as well as any two broadway cards and hands that have no showdown value. However, if you lead / make a blocking bet and get raised you pretty much have to lay it down I think? So c/c seems to have the most long term EV
  11. ChiefJustis ChiefJustis is offline

    Atlanta, GA
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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 7:54pm) in reply to ahh_snap

    What is his history with you. Based on what I know about your rep, he can't believe that his implied odds are that great to call a psb on the turn with a flush or str8 draw. I think you value bet this river 2.2K. I would crying call a river raise.

    J
  12. UCBananaboy UCBananaboy is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 8:04pm) in reply to ChiefJustis

    block/value bet of 1k?
  13. ChiefJustis ChiefJustis is offline

    Atlanta, GA
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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 8:11pm) in reply to UCBananaboy

    I hate that size bet unless you are doing it to entice a raise with the intention of calling. I think this increases his bluff frequency a lot.

    J
  14. snake8484 snake8484 is offline

    Vancouver
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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 8:11pm) in reply to UCBananaboy

    i agree with stlouis. I actually think c/c is the worst option. I can't think of many hands that he would bet that are worse on that river. Maybe JQ QK or JK floating two streets planning on repping flush if it hits as well but i doubt thats often. I think i like betting here the most, and if you do check and he shoves i would have a tough time calling... I jsut dont think it's like him to shove without it on river often. Although he could have a mediocre ace and turn it into a bluff on river trying to scare out AK or AQ, but i sitll like betting most here.
    454 
  15. PocketHeadies PocketHeadies is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 8:24pm) in reply to ahh_snap

    need more info on oppenent if u think he will bluff and rep the flush then i would check call.....but i agree with a block/freeze bet of around 1200 very tuff spot if he then goes all in...and u almost have to call....
  16. tdk tdk is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 8:39pm) in reply to ahh_snap

    villian is playing like hes on the flush draw. i think if he had toptwo or bottom two he'd reraise u either on flop or turn, more likely so on the turn. really tough spot that happens all the time in my live 2-5 and 5-10 games. bunch of check calling drunk fucks. i usually will do a blocker bet here, i think anywhere between 1k-2k is right. if he pushes over the top, i will be calling and stacking off 75% of the time. the other 25% is my eye of the tiger fold. rough estimates, but i hope it converys my thought process. reload and open up shop again snap.
  17. brooklyn29 brooklyn29 is offline

    Brooklyn, NY
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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 8:42pm) in reply to ahh_snap

    i dont really think he shows up with a flush here very often..a solid player would have a tough time calling that turn bet with a bare flush draw..with that said, i dont think c/c is the way to go as it seems like he has a medium strength hand that he feels might be good, that wouldn;t bet the river, just hoping for showdown..but then again, i dont think theres too many hands that he calls river with that we beat, so its a pretty nasty spot..i still prefer betting out something like 2200 - 2400
  18. Slow Cheetah Slow Cheetah is offline

    Winthrop, MA
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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 8:50pm) in reply to ahh_snap

    Okay, so what kind of hand does play2kill come out firing with? 44 1010 or flush draw are my guesses.
  19. UCBananaboy UCBananaboy is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 8:52pm) in reply to snake8484

    Snake... where have you beeN? Haven't seen you on stars in ages... miss you destroying those games.
  20. AK87 AK87 is offline

    Ambler, PA
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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 8:57pm) in reply to Slow Cheetah

    Haven't read the replies but this is a shove
  21. tmac2424 tmac2424 is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 10:02pm) in reply to AK87

    The call on the turn on his part looks way too loose for a flush draw, but you say hes a solid player, so he is almost certainly thinking of his expressed pot odds on the turn and his implied odds for the river (if in fact he does have the flush draw which is still a small chance) So, on the turn the pot is 2350 with a 1000 bet (about 2.35 to 1) which means that on expressed odds alone he would need to improve to a club 29% of the time, which is obviously not true (around 18%) Idk what his view is of you, but that large bet on the turn on your part really looks like a strong flopped hand (possibly tptk and more likely 2 pr and possibly even a double barrel) so he may view it as decent implied odds for the river which means if he thinks he could get, say 1k out of you on the river if he hits, then it would be 3.35 to 1 or 23 percent. Still not good enough. Lets try 2k. 4.35 to 1 or 19%. Pretty close number there, so for his call on the turn here to be profitable if hes on a flush draw alone then he would need to expect to make at LEAST 2k out of you on the river. To me this just makes it look more like he doesnt have the flush draw.
  22. bad grr bad grr is offline

    Madison, WI
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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 10:09pm) in reply to tmac2424

    minbet ftw?
  23. FishOnTilt FishOnTilt is offline

    Sioux City, IA
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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 10:11pm) in reply to tmac2424

    i dont like checking seems like too often you will lose out on value. i think i like a bet of 1600-2200 but what do i know.
     
  24. blueraider blueraider is offline

    Rockford, IL
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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 10:17pm) in reply to ahh_snap

    Lead 2400. c/c is horrendous.

    Any chance he plays 10's this way?
  25. ahh_snap ahh_snap is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 10:27pm) in reply to blueraider

    Yeah I shoved. I think check calling is probably the worst option. If I was an unknown player betting small to entice a shove may have been a good idea as well. But yeah I'd say shove > check fold > check call would be my order. Possibly a bet of 2200 and folding but I hate doing plays like that.
    Thread Starter
  26. UCBananaboy UCBananaboy is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 10:30pm) in reply to ahh_snap

    can we get the result?
  27. ahh_snap ahh_snap is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 10:33pm) in reply to UCBananaboy

    I shoved, he timed down forever and folded.... I just think it is really hard for me to get him to pay me off on that river but I dunno.. Any hand that he has that I beat on the river is pretty much a bluff catcher only unless he thinks I'd value shove top pair top kicker which I may or may not shove for value.
    Thread Starter
  28. FishOnTilt FishOnTilt is offline

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    Aug 5th, 2007 (8/5/2007 10:40pm) in reply to ahh_snap

    i think he had AQ so i prefer value bet over the straight shove. not much is callin u that u can beat if u straight shove. A10 maybe but thats about it.
     
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