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Interesting spot vs Apestyles SB BB in 100r

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  1. Roothlus Roothlus is offline

    Vancouver
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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 10:53pm)

    pokerstars Game #11474775826: Tournament #57897765, $100+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (150/300) - 2007/08/13 - 21:39:32 (ET)
    Table '57897765 3' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
    Seat 1: Randers (6015 in chips)
    Seat 2: THE__D__RY (8948 in chips)
    Seat 3: Tmay420 (14392 in chips)
    Seat 4: bastet2004 (7170 in chips)
    Seat 5: plattsburgh (3471 in chips)
    Seat 6: apestyles (17459 in chips)
    Seat 7: Roothlus (21890 in chips)
    Seat 8: jpapola (11525 in chips)
    Seat 9: bd3109 (7405 in chips)
    Randers: posts the ante 25
    THE__D__RY: posts the ante 25
    Tmay420: posts the ante 25
    bastet2004: posts the ante 25
    plattsburgh: posts the ante 25
    apestyles: posts the ante 25
    Roothlus: posts the ante 25
    jpapola: posts the ante 25
    bd3109: posts the ante 25
    apestyles: posts small blind 150
    Roothlus: posts big blind 300
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Roothlus [8c 8s]
    jpapola: folds
    bd3109: folds
    Randers: folds
    THE__D__RY: folds
    Tmay420: folds
    bastet2004: folds
    plattsburgh: folds
    apestyles: raises 900 to 1200

    Both of us have pretty healthy stacks and I know Apestyles can be a loose cannon at times but he hasn't done anything out of line yet. We haven't tussled much but I do think he thinks he can run over me. Also what is his 4xing range here? How am I supposed to approach this spot? I don't really like smooth calling but with both our stacks so deep, reraising doesn't seem great either. It just seems like a really sketchy spot.

    What's your approach?
    574 
  2. jalman1 jalman1 is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 10:54pm) in reply to Roothlus

    Min-Raise.....FTW
    107 3
  3. 1.21Gigawatts 1.21Gigawatts is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 10:58pm) in reply to Roothlus

    Raise. You've got the best hand. Stay aggressive. He knows he has to give you credit sometimes.
  4. d2themfi d2themfi is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:00pm) in reply to Roothlus

    I would flat here and use my position, and probably be floating a lot of flops
     
  5. AJKHoosier1 AJKHoosier1 is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:02pm) in reply to d2themfi

    cosign d2... i was gonna make a case for RRing to 4200, but I couldn't decide what to do if he reshoved, i almost feel like you'd hafta call, which rly blows for this many chips... stacks too deep

    call and float light if the flop is clean enough (paint-rag-rag, etc) eval turn... control the pot

    but, if the flop comes something favorable, even without an 8, like 552, etc, i'd play it vv aggro and not fold bc i think your hand is so disguised and ape is capable of a lot.
    131
  6. duke186 duke186 is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:05pm) in reply to Roothlus

    whats your image? his 4 betting range is pretty dependent on whether or not he thinks you will get out of line, because i think he pretty capable of 4 betting light (from the little ive seen)

    disregarding that, i dont think a call is so bad in position.
  7. Andy McLEOD Andy McLEOD is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:09pm) in reply to Roothlus

    id flat without much thought, stacks too deep to be repopping.
    1
  8. B_O_K_E B_O_K_E is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:15pm) in reply to Roothlus

    Ok so for you ladies that said flat call, what do you do on a 7 high flop and a cbet from The great ape? I reraise here and if he shoves, I fold and find a gun. Dont you wanna know where your at before the 7 high flop comes and you lose even more?
     
  9. 1.21Gigawatts 1.21Gigawatts is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:15pm) in reply to AJKHoosier1

    Reraising is fine, and folding to a shove is okay in my book. It's not weak at all. Ape is shoving any pocket pair that has 88 crushed, and AK-AQ.

    If he wants to make a play at the pot and shove with nothing, let him have it.
  10. B_O_K_E B_O_K_E is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:17pm) in reply to B_O_K_E

    I feel he 4x's in hopes that you think he isnt goin anywhere if you repop.

    BTW Ape Ownz......F gaytors...Still not over it rooth!
     
  11. 1.21Gigawatts 1.21Gigawatts is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:21pm) in reply to B_O_K_E

    If Ape is the type of player willing to 4-bet preflop with nothing, then he's not exactly the type of guy who's going to give up on a pot once you float him on the flop, is he? You're not going to see many favorable flops with 88, and you're just getting yourself into a mess. Play aggressively with a hand like this in the blinds.
  12. mattg1983 mattg1983 is offline buying action

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:23pm) in reply to B_O_K_E

    raising to "see where you are at" is pretty terrible here
     12
  13. B_O_K_E B_O_K_E is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:25pm) in reply to mattg1983

    Would you call/fold than Matt? Whats the right play than sir? Im curious?
     
  14. 1.21Gigawatts 1.21Gigawatts is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:27pm) in reply to mattg1983

    I'm not raising to see where I'm at. I'm raising because I think I have the best hand, and to get him to fold most hands that he'd raise with from the SB.

    If he comes back over the top, so be it. I still think he'll give it up the majority of the time.

    Obviously a lot of this depends on what ape thinks Roothlus would typically do in this situation. If Ape knows roothlus is going to reraise a lot of hands here, then everything changes. I guess I didn't realy think of that.
  15. pbdrunks pbdrunks is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:27pm) in reply to Roothlus

    I would flat, and if a 7 high flop does come i am goin to go broke. But thats cause i suck at poker
     1
  16. RtShrubber RtShrubber is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:34pm) in reply to pbdrunks

    If you re-raise he's gonna shove and then you'll have a really tough decision. I vote for flat calling. And i think his 4x range is 23o - AA.
     
  17. 1.21Gigawatts 1.21Gigawatts is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:36pm) in reply to RtShrubber

    It is among the consensus that everyone is terrified of apestyles, apparently.

    I'd like to hear his thoughts on this hand.
  18. shipitthisway shipitthisway is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:41pm) in reply to 1.21Gigawatts

    I flat call, use position to control pot
     
  19. hoorayforjaded hoorayforjaded is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:48pm) in reply to 1.21Gigawatts

    it's the 4x part that bothers me. that's just strange...makes bells go off in my head. one thing i think we all agree on is you have to be able to let this one go if you repop and he plays back, or if you flat call and the flop comes fairly favorable but you meet some resistance. this is tricky...seems like it shouldn't be, but it is.
  20. Andy McLEOD Andy McLEOD is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:52pm) in reply to hoorayforjaded

    it's really not tricky at all. call and play post flop poker.
    1
  21. hoorayforjaded hoorayforjaded is offline

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    Aug 13th, 2007 (8/13/2007 11:58pm) in reply to Andy McLEOD

    tricky for me because ape is a better post flop player than i am. I would have position...that is good, but it might be best for me to make as few decisions as possible.
  22. mattg1983 mattg1983 is offline buying action

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    Aug 14th, 2007 (8/14/2007 12:02am) in reply to B_O_K_E

    i would likely call but I dont think rerasing and calling the shove is bad either.
     12
  23. sandler1860 sandler1860 is offline

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    Aug 14th, 2007 (8/14/2007 12:07am) in reply to hoorayforjaded

    Making it 4x from the small blind is NOT a cause for alarm...this is the standard raise for a lot of players SB to BB, the thinking being that you make the BB pay to have position on you.
     
  24. hoorayforjaded hoorayforjaded is offline

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    Aug 14th, 2007 (8/14/2007 12:14am) in reply to sandler1860

    makes sense.
  25. triggathree triggathree is offline

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    Aug 14th, 2007 (8/14/2007 12:23am) in reply to Roothlus

    call

    if i dont hit set i would float most flops and give up to most turn bets.

    wouldnt want to play a huge pot here with your hand and stack

    especially against a talented player.
     
  26. apestyles apestyles is offline Moderator

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    Aug 14th, 2007 (8/14/2007 12:29am) in reply to Roothlus

    Loose cannon? lol, maybe a little. I think I can name a couple of times where youve gotten it in really bad vs. me becaues you assume I'm pushing you around (huge huge pot with ur Qk vs my ak in the 300 for one). I dont intentionally get in pots with players I respect out of position.

    I like flat call in position here since you're so deep and are pretty much forced to call if I 4 bet since I've been known to 4 bet light. Float most flops, reevaluate turn, get it if I have an overpair or set or 79T kind of flop. Playing 8 tables, cant really get detailed cause I'm timing out everywhere.
     282 12 

    apestyles is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

  27. Crazyhorse76 Crazyhorse76 is offline

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    Aug 14th, 2007 (8/14/2007 12:35am) in reply to apestyles

    Flat in position seems the only play to me.
     2
  28. Brandon6176 Brandon6176 is offline

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    Aug 14th, 2007 (8/14/2007 12:35am) in reply to Roothlus

    I definitely think i'd make it no less than 3.5K to go here. You need an information raise here to figure out what kind of hand Ape has and what he's willing to do with it. By far your more than likely ahead of his range to steal blinds. If he shoves, I muck.
  29. apestyles apestyles is offline Moderator

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    Aug 14th, 2007 (8/14/2007 12:39am) in reply to sandler1860

    4x is my standard sb to bb raise for the most part... For the reasons sanders said...
     282 12 
  30. Roothlus Roothlus is offline

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    Aug 14th, 2007 (8/14/2007 2:02am) in reply to apestyles

    the last time this situation came up was in the very first ftp 100r and you 4 bet me all in sb bb with 150k at 500/1000 to my 100k and showed me K7o after I called with AQ :). So yea, just like the KQ play I made on you, I remember the K7o play you made on me lol.

    Anyways, I reraised to 4200. I decided that I was willing to gamble with him for a 35k stack if need be instead of playing small pot poker. So he thinks for like ten seconds, shoves and I call without any thought whatsoever and he flips over 99. That K7 hand was still lingering in my head so I felt like I wasn't going to stand for any of apes bullshit and maybe eventually down the road he'd stop 4betting me with craziness :). I even told him that after the hand.
    574 
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