<span> As I contemplated making this thread I thought to myself how badly I was going to get flamed for making it.. and that the answer to my questions are fairly obvious... but then i just said ah fk it if there's one person who has something valuable that I haven't thought of then it's worth it...</span>
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So I am currently backed by a close personal friend who I went to college with.. he enjoys poker recreationally but doesn't play it seriously/well because he has a ton of money and generally doesn't care.. He has been backing me ever since I started playing full time in december with conditions that have been dynamic throughout the time with just a standard backing arrangement in place right now (50/50 with makeup)...

He was fine to deal with when I was on a nice upswing which was during the beginning of april up until WSOP, partly because I always could keep a nice roll online and all I had to do was text him or email him a schedule of things I wanted to run which he would approve... 

Since WSOP I have been on a minor (30k) downswing which is extremely standard, the problem that I have encountered is that he wants me to continue playing, but leaves the responsibility of getting online funds to me hence I have been forced to put up my own winnings from before and WSOP in order to continue playing... I have zero concern that I will recover the money that I have put up as that is not the issue at hand.. He will now go days if not full weeks without reaching me and it even reached the point where I had to cancel my hotel and flight reservations for WSOPE because I couldn't reach him to get the buyins for the events..

Having said this I sit currently around 30k makeup and while I'd really like to find another backer leaving him while I'm 30k in makeup doesn't seem right either.. I've had multiple discussions with him about the issue and things will be fine for a week or two and then revert to the same as before.. He has promised to mail checks to ppl who have fronted me online money and in order to not smear my own name I've had to pay them back out of pocket (He has always paid me back but sometimes months down the road)... 

I'm really at a loss as to how to deal with this as the whole point of being backed is that you don't have to risk your own money to play/allowing you to play higher... 

And before anyone says it please refrain from saying "this is why you don't do business with friends"... 

I'd really appreciate some feedback from backers/anyone with good thoughts if u really feel the need to flame me for this then fine and maybe i'm dumb but i'm really not sure how to deal with it.. 

Thanks</span>

You hit the nail on the head yourself when you said <span>the whole point of being backed is that you don't have to risk your own money to play/allowing you to play higher...
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<span>Give him a concrete deadline to reimburse you, with the stipulation that if he doesn't meet the deadline you are free to seek a new backer.
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I think it's fair to leave him while you're in makeup. The only way backing is really worth it (for the horse) is if you are a losing player, end up losing and leave the stake while you were down. A, you didn't lose any of your own money and B, you got to still play for a profit. Now i'd assume if you a 30k slide to you isn't much you're a good player. So If you keep doubling the staked roll and splitting profits then why aren't you jut playing on your own, taking full winnings instead of half? Now, if you were to lose (30k downswing) then if there was anytime to leave a backer it'd be right now. He assumes all the risk, you just play. If you don't feel it's a smart idea to continue your backing relationship, which it sounds like you'd like to end it, I would (first get my money back from him and make sure that is safe) but then cut it off. He shouldn't take anything personal and if he does, this is another reason to not mix friends and business.

I understand how you feel however, like you should make it back to him at least. But this, again, is the risk HE assumed when backing you. If he gives you a hard time when you're trying to move on than he's a pretty big POS and was not ready to assume the risk of losing a decent amount of money.

edit: I'd only do this if there were no terms to ending the stake. As in, you're or he is allowed to walk away at any time for any reason. If there is a contract where you have to play X amount of tournies then I think buying out, like gboro said, makes sense if you want to leave him.

 

Originally Posted by gboro780

i'm pretty naive when it comes to staking but i think you should offer him like 10k to buyout. he sounds like a shitty backer but just leaving doesn't seem right either. i'd try and meet in the middle somewhere. also maybe try explaining to him that outside distractions like these take its toll on your poker game and he's really shooting himself in the foot by being such a retaaaad to his stakes.

Sounds very reasonable.

He might counter with $15K or $20K, but I would present it as a take it or leave it proposition. $10K and keep it movin', or nada.

 

Originally Posted by rfohrenbach

You hit the nail on the head yourself when you said <span>the whole point of being backed is that you don't have to risk your own money to play/allowing you to play higher...
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<span>Give him a concrete deadline to reimburse you, with the stipulation that if he doesn't meet the deadline you are free to seek a new backer.
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This sounds about right. His job as your backer/boss is to constantly provide you with funds whenever you need more. If he's not following through with this, his business is going to fail. You need to sit down with him and explain how playing professionally works since it seems he's just a recreational player that doesn't have a full grasp on needing to put in constant volume.

After looking at where you're from, I further see where this could be a problem on your backer end...

but in all honesty, he's probably so lax about things like getting you funds because he isn't really a poker player himself. It's a lot easier for someone like Bax or bkice to move funds around because they know it only hinders them if they don't. This guy probably doesn't really care all that much about the money you're making him and sees it as "Anh, when he wins I get some, but I'm not too worried about that."

I could also guess where he went to school and prob hit it within 3 guesses if he's type you describe him as :)

gl fats

I've been backed for 3 months and the last two were with well funded, serious poker playing guys. I started crushing. I went from 1 mtt win to 5 in 3 months.

/brag cause I'm not bragging, I'm just saying that the entire reason for getting backed is so you don't have deal with any stress at all, just play. If your backer is causing you any kind of stress, then you need to move on. With your stats you won't have a problem getting bankrolled by any number of legit stakers.

I like Gboro's idea of offering a buy-out, but I think you should just give him a small slice of your future winnings until he gets whatever you agree upon. This is the deal I arranged with my previous backer before moving on to a player fund, 5% of my future winnings till it's paid off on what we agreed on. That way again there's zero stress, because you aren't out of pocket for makeup.

BTW, staking is a business arrangement regardless of your personal relationship with him. You don't "owe" him 30k. If you choose to keep him involved so that you pay him back then you're a good friend, but business shouldn't and doesn't have anything to do with your friendship.

GL

 

Originally Posted by tbt4653

You said you're currently about 30K in makeup.  A few questions:

1.  How much are you owed by him for fronting money for buy-ins?
2.  Are you net in the positive since the staking relationship started (in other words, were you up more than 30K prior to the current makeup being accrued)? 

1.) He owes me ~19k
2.) I'm a net 80k positive in the staking agreement roughly I believe

Some really good insight in both this and Stuman123's thread about being dropped. I really doubt fatso would have a problem finding a new backer with his results both live and online.
Keep us posted on what route you took and how it worked out fatso. When are you on TV for WSOP ME it should be soon right?

 

Originally Posted by FatsoFat6969

1.) He owes me ~19k
2.) I'm a net 80k positive in the staking agreement roughly I believe

You simply need to tell him that he has to pay you back the $19K before you can resume the staking relationship, until he pays you back the deal is on hold. If you think he can pay you back in a few days, then it would be best to just take a few days off of poker to avoid any uncomfortable situations (like if you ship something big when you are on "hold"). If he can't come up with the money then you need to end the deal. A buy-out of $10-15K sounds fair, so he will still owe you some money. Also he not only has to pay you the $19K back, he has to give you a bankroll as well, because he doesn't seem like the type of guy who can handle shipping you the exact amount that you need to play each morning.
Walking out on a backer when you are still in make-up is never an option, but if he can't provide you with money to play, then he is essentially breaking the contract and leaving the backing deal would not be consider walking out on him. Even though he is breaking the contract, I feel that you still owe him some compensation for the make-up, although he seems like a pretty horrible backer, it took 2 people to get into this situation when a backer owes his horse $19K.

 It changed after i got back from vegas.. i wouldn't leave that agreement either but this is just a std makeup agreement