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J-J final table of Stars Super Tuesday 1k

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  1. danxxx1 danxxx1 is offline

    Saint Louis, MO
    United States

    Posts: 209
    Joined: Jul 07

    Aug 26th, 2009 (8/26/2009 3:49pm)

    This hand has bothered me since last night and wanted to see what you guys thought the correct play was here.

    I had zero reads on the chip leader as we hadn't played at all together til the final table.

    Whats your play and why?

    <pre>pokerstars Game #32067906942: Tournament #188959188, $1000+$50 USD Hold'em No
    Limit - Level XVII (1500/3000) - 2009/08/26 2:01:33 ET
    Table '188959188 19' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
    Seat 2: xxxxxxxxx (181775 in chips)
    Seat 3: Villain (250359 in chips)
    Seat 5: xxxxxxxxx (122806 in chips)
    Seat 6: xxxxxxxxx (85270 in chips)
    Seat 7: Hero (98574 in chips)
    Seat 8: xxxxxxxx (83508 in chips)
    Seat 9: xxxxxxxxx (197708 in chips)
    xxxxxxxx: posts the ante 300
    Villian : posts the ante 300
    xxxxxx: posts the ante 300
    xxxxxxx: posts the ante 300
    Hero: posts the ante 300
    xxxxxxx: posts the ante 300
    xxxxxxxx: posts the ante 300
    xxxxxxxx posts small blind 1500
    xxxxxxxx posts big blind 3000
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Hero [Jd Jh]
    Villain : raises 4250 to 7250
    xxxxxxx: folds
    xxxxxxx: folds
    Hero: raises 14500 to 21750
    xxxxxxxx: folds
    xxxxxxxxx: folds
    xxxxxxxxxx: folds
    Villain : raises 15750 to 37500

    </pre>
    Cant really see what I am beating here...figured a-k would just shove...thoughts?
     
  2. swd805 swd805 is offline

    CA
    United States

    Posts: 2,250
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    Aug 26th, 2009 (8/26/2009 3:51pm) in reply to danxxx1

    who is the villain?
  3. gutshtallin gutshtallin is offline

    Posts: 1,238
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    Aug 26th, 2009 (8/26/2009 3:57pm) in reply to danxxx1

    I think this is one of the times where if your not willing to go the felt here pre flop, then i dont like the 3 bet. I think AK can definitely still make a 4bet here..y not? AK would love for you to fold JJ or TT in this spot.
    Villain also has a lot of chips and may be 4betting lighter then JJ here. Im getting my chips in here as played. With 30bbs, i dont really like any other options other than 3bet/call. If villian had AA or KK i would think he should be shoving those hands as well. Who knows, I could be giving the villian way to much credit for being a thinking player.
     11
  4. Appst08 Appst08 is offline

    Posts: 5,543
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    Aug 26th, 2009 (8/26/2009 3:57pm) in reply to swd805

     
    Originally Posted by swd805 View Post

    who is the villain?

    steve levy? im just guessing but i saw him as CL when i watched
     
  5. Dead Money Dom Dead Money Dom is offline

    Buffalo, NY
    United States

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    Aug 26th, 2009 (8/26/2009 4:02pm) in reply to danxxx1

    i prob fold and spite ship on him next time he opens.
     
  6. danxxx1 danxxx1 is offline

    Saint Louis, MO
    United States

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    Aug 26th, 2009 (8/26/2009 4:06pm) in reply to gutshtallin

    To gutshotallin

    Thanks for the reply, very good thought process and I appreciate the input.

    I didnt think a-k would do this, thought he would just shove in with big slick and since my stack size kinda sucks for him to be 4 betting light, I thought it looked like a monster.

    by the way to the people who asked the Villain was this guy.. 19FMS76
     
    Thread Starter
  7. EddieO EddieO is offline

    Tampa, FL
    United States

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    Aug 26th, 2009 (8/26/2009 4:12pm) in reply to Dead Money Dom

    If you're going to 3 bet fold - then just flat pre
  8. gutshtallin gutshtallin is offline

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    Aug 26th, 2009 (8/26/2009 4:38pm) in reply to danxxx1

     
    Originally Posted by danxxx1 View Post

    To gutshotallin

    Thanks for the reply, very good thought process and I appreciate the input.

    I didnt think a-k would do this, thought he would just shove in with big slick and since my stack size kinda sucks for him to be 4 betting light, I thought it looked like a monster.

    by the way to the people who asked the Villain was this guy.. 19FMS76

    He is a very solid player, who def thinks about the game. So i doubt he is very light with the 4bet..but he could def 4bet bluff here some % of time. I honestly dont mind flatting pre here wtih JJ.I think the Flat could def slow him down on the flop as well. I may be giving some info away..but i def would 4bet AK here, I mean he isnt folding regardless, but if he can fold out hands he flips with, then why not?

    And to those saying it may fold out AQ or AJ..i doubt those hands are 5bet shoving at this point or even 3 bet /calling
     11
  9. darkhawk-200 darkhawk-200 is offline

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    Aug 26th, 2009 (8/26/2009 4:49pm) in reply to gutshtallin

    pretty sure this is an easy 3 bet call, not sure why it's bothering you. If you dn't want to 3bet/call then don't raise. Flatting is good too if u r looking to get squeezed.

    But if u get squeezed, u obv can't fold
     1
  10. ender555 ender555 is offline

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    Aug 26th, 2009 (8/26/2009 5:00pm) in reply to danxxx1

    shove
     11
  11. darkcheck_ darkcheck_ is offline

    Costa Rica

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    Aug 26th, 2009 (8/26/2009 5:03pm) in reply to gutshtallin

     
    Originally Posted by gutshtallin View Post

    I think this is one of the times where if your not willing to go the felt here pre flop, then i dont like the 3 bet. I think AK can definitely still make a 4bet here..y not? AK would love for you to fold JJ or TT in this spot.
    Villain also has a lot of chips and may be 4betting lighter then JJ here. Im getting my chips in here as played. With 30bbs, i dont really like any other options other than 3bet/call. If villian had AA or KK i would think he should be shoving those hands as well. Who knows, I could be giving the villian way to much credit for being a thinking player.

     
  12. lukaluka05 lukaluka05 is offline

    S San Fran, CA
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    Aug 27th, 2009 (8/27/2009 1:28am) in reply to danxxx1

    I don't see how you can 3 bet fold this, it leaves you with the shortest stack at table and you have the 4th best starting cards in hold em. Find love for da shove......
  13. Leet8s Leet8s is offline usausausausausa

    New York City, NY
    United States

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    Aug 27th, 2009 (8/27/2009 1:35am) in reply to lukaluka05

    I think the villain can definitely be leveling you with his bet sizing with something like AK or 99/TT where he knows he won't fold versus you regardless but knows a 4-bet size like his can make you fold hands that beat him. You can't be folding here...
     
  14. AFink93 AFink93 is offline

    Norwich, CT
    United States

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    Aug 27th, 2009 (8/27/2009 1:44am) in reply to danxxx1

    How can you not have any reads? Its Final table. There are 7 left. (Unless there was a 3 man KO to break the FT). You must have some kind of read whether he has been opening any pots at all or not.

    3Bet FOlding kinda sucks. But whatever Sometimes they just have it.. Good Play.
  15. UhhMee UhhMee is offline

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    Aug 27th, 2009 (8/27/2009 1:55am) in reply to danxxx1

    puke and stick it in there. I'd say it's just one of those spots that you may just have to bite the bullet and shove, it seems doubtful that he would be 4-bet bluffing at this point especially if he doesn't have any reads on you (which I'm assuming he doesn't because you said you don't have any on him). At the same time, 3-bet/folding he is beyond awful and spewy and would completely cripple your stack and I think I'd rather toss (obviously it isn't a toss very often here, but if it is) for 200k+ rather than folding and leaving myself 75k or 25BB's. That being said, if you can completely eliminate any light 4-bet (including 88-1010, AQs, stone-cold bluffs, etc.) than maybe you could dig deep and find a fold.
    47 1
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