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Jennifear/SNG PROS- HELP W/ 18-45 man turbos <$10

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  1. jetsjets1028 jetsjets1028 is offline

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    Dec 27th, 2008 (12/27/2008 10:59pm)

    Been noticing that the "all in push by the BB after several limpers" play is starting to make a comeback.

    Obviously there are all sorts of variables but if anyone can give a standard range that you should be calling these monkeys with it would be of great help.

    Assuming I have no info on the BB I have been calling with A10+ and any pocket pair and the results have been good so far (tiny sample) but it just seems like a very wide range to be calling with.

    Thoughts?
  2. kmil420 kmil420 is offline

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    Dec 27th, 2008 (12/27/2008 11:40pm) in reply to jetsjets1028

    I'm never limping in a SNG so I can't really help you with a range here. I will say that anything your are willing to limp/call shove with you should be open raising. Lots of bad players will limp hands that they intend to call shove with, so I am very weary when shoving over limpers with weak aces etc.
  3. leftygrove leftygrove is offline

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    Dec 27th, 2008 (12/27/2008 11:58pm) in reply to kmil420

     
    Originally Posted by kmil420 View Post

    I'm never limping in a SNG so I can't really help you with a range here. I will say that anything your are willing to limp/call shove with you should be open raising.

    this is great advice. if you're limping mediocre hands like k-j or j-10, i could see how this situation could be a problem.
  4. shootair shootair is offline

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    Dec 28th, 2008 (12/28/2008 12:13am) in reply to jetsjets1028

    its funny how beginners try and make a sng much more complicated than it really is
  5. TonyBlaze TonyBlaze is offline

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    Dec 28th, 2008 (12/28/2008 12:27am) in reply to jetsjets1028

    Jets I would agree there are very few spots you should be limping in a s and g. In fact one of the only time I WOULD is with a big hand when one of these monkeys are at my table.

    This IS a tough spot so the solution in sincerley to not put yourself in tough spots by limping too too much.

    If you don't feel a hand is worth a raise maybe chuck it? Limping with PP's and A 10 (in EP I assume) is just weak and you are out of position as well. Don't be afraid to fold a9,a10 in EP but if you enter the pot you should raise it.

    You can fold little pairs in EP and that is OK but again best you raise it up if you enter as you just get in too many tough spots.
     
  6. TonyBlaze TonyBlaze is offline

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    Dec 28th, 2008 (12/28/2008 12:39am) in reply to TonyBlaze

    Also in these turbo's everything I said apply's Times 2 :)

    Turbo players are looking for spots like this constantly ....no time to wait around or pass up what appear to be +EV spots
     
  7. Autolobotomist Autolobotomist is online now playing air is my style? so what

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    Dec 28th, 2008 (12/28/2008 7:44am) in reply to TonyBlaze

     
    Originally Posted by TonyBlaze View Post

    Jets I would agree there are very few spots you should be limping in a s and g. In fact one of the only time I WOULD is with a big hand when one of these monkeys are at my table.

    I'm no pro but I'm chiming in anyway because I'm never getting better at this game if I don't discuss it and I've realized that making fart jokes in OT isn't really helping. someone smarter than me please tell me if you think I'm wrong about this.

    How many times does someone have to shove over several limpers in a sng for you to make this read? How many more times for you to confirm this read? And then how often can you expect them to do it again at a low enough blind level that you'll still have some fold equity when you play back at this move? Probably not very often, even in 45 mans.

    If you see it from a reg, note it and then follow through on the read in another tourney later if you see it again. I don't know how often I'd feel comfortable enough with a read to be shipping against this play within the hundred or couple hundred hands I might see someone play in one sng. I think this kind of speculation will likely cost you money in the long run when weighing the times you get stacked being wrong against the times you're right and get 1/4 to 1/3 of a stack.
  8. jetsjets1028 jetsjets1028 is offline

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    Dec 28th, 2008 (12/28/2008 8:14am) in reply to Autolobotomist

    i never open limp in a sng no matter what, but early in the 1st few levels I have been trying to apply Jennifear's advice of playing some hands that tend to hit the flop hard like suited aces and small PP, but ONLY when their are 2-3 limpers in front of me and I am in position

    it has been successful for me because I have committed to getting away from trouble flops like an Ace high flop when I have a suited A-rag and paired boards when I play a small pocket pair

    these spots only come up once or twice max per sng but over the course of time and volume im seeing this play often and it seems to be +EV to call these donk shoves because they show up with trash so often, and almost never make this play with a big hand

    to the fart joke guy, i dont think you have to wait to have a read on a specific player if the call is +EV overall in the level that you are playing

    am i totally off base here??
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  9. TonyBlaze TonyBlaze is offline

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    Dec 28th, 2008 (12/28/2008 8:54am) in reply to Autolobotomist

    Auto- for me it has never been a number of hands it is just getting a sense for the players.

    Players at micro levels who decide to punish limpers tend to do so quite consistently as part of their strategy as less of them vary their game.

    It is more of an intuition for me which I can tend to draw fairly quickly from the guys who seem to be looking for spots like this and others to pick up chips. The higher the blinds are the more this play comes increases with possibility.

    I would agree that the earlier the level the more OK it is to limp. I can't say I never limp at all and if I do it is behind another limp or two with a speculative hand and its early.

    This all of course is just MY opinion and that doesn't make it gospel by any stretch of the imagination.

    cheers
     
  10. TonyBlaze TonyBlaze is offline

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    Dec 28th, 2008 (12/28/2008 9:11am) in reply to jetsjets1028

     
    Originally Posted by jetsjets1028 View Post


    i never open limp in a sng no matter what, but early in the 1st few levels I have been trying to apply Jennifear's advice of playing some hands that tend to hit the flop hard like suited aces and small PP, but ONLY when their are 2-3 limpers in front of me and I am in position

    Yea Nothing wrong with that if you know when to get away like you said as long as its early.

    EDIT- and BTW the way I am only a pro in my own mind...so take it for what its worth :)
     
  11. jetsjets1028 jetsjets1028 is offline

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    Dec 28th, 2008 (12/28/2008 12:48pm) in reply to TonyBlaze

     
    Originally Posted by TonyBlaze View Post

     
    Originally Posted by jetsjets1028 View Post


    i never open limp in a sng no matter what, but early in the 1st few levels I have been trying to apply Jennifear's advice of playing some hands that tend to hit the flop hard like suited aces and small PP, but ONLY when their are 2-3 limpers in front of me and I am in position

    Yea Nothing wrong with that if you know when to get away like you said as long as its early.

    EDIT- and BTW the way I am only a pro in my own mind...so take it for what its worth :)

    all advice is welcome...the more perspective I can get on this the better....i feel like guys shoving an INSANE amount of BBs early to try and steal is too juicy a spot to not try and take advantage of....thx for all the input so far
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  12. SloHand SloHand is offline

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    Dec 28th, 2008 (12/28/2008 2:02pm) in reply to jetsjets1028

    Ill say this, and Im sure jenifear would know better than me. Once blinds hit 100 I do not limp (maybe 1/3000 hands I will under certain situations). I think you should speculate when the blinds are low, once they move up this limping crap is a severe no no.
  13. rivverkiller rivverkiller is offline

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    Dec 28th, 2008 (12/28/2008 2:07pm) in reply to SloHand

    Stop limping in sng's. Problem solved.
     
  14. jetsjets1028 jetsjets1028 is offline

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    Dec 28th, 2008 (12/28/2008 2:14pm) in reply to rivverkiller

     
    Originally Posted by rivverkiller View Post

    Stop limping in sng's. Problem solved.

    Im not trying to "solve a problem". Its obviously easy to muck to a 50BB shove.

    There are plenty of very experienced SNG players that will speculate with hands in the 1st 3-4 levels to try and pick off some bad players that wont be there later and in the process, this situation will come up.

    I honestly don't think limping in level 1 after 3 limpers with say, 55 on the button is a bad play. I think set mining is a crucial aspect of proper sng play so while you should not be limping often in these, there are proper places to do so (in my opinion).
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