First of all, I respect everything that everyone has said in this thread, and I am glad there is actually some discussion about this topic going on here.

But... I think there are some misconceptions being spread here by the OP.

First of all, I would say having a bankroll of 1000.00 is at the very very low end of what you should have to be playing 22-27$ sng's. 50 buy-in's should be a mininium requirement, and to ensure optimal performance you should have closer to 75 buyin's, 100 is preferred.

Second, saying you can determine if you are a winning player after playing 100 or 200 or 300 sng's is absolutely laughable. I think the best way to determine if you are a winning player is to be constantly looking at your game, seeing if you are making the right decisions all the time. Don't be results oriented. After 1000 sng's, go back and see how that "group" faired in terms of ROI, but don't make any big decsiioons based off that info. INstead, go back, recheck your game, and play another 1000, again, not worrying about ROI so much as making the right decisons all the time. If you do this, your ROI will take care of itself. Winning payers whose overall ROI might be as high as 15% or even 25% will have runs of 1000 sng's where their ROI will be negative. Don't EVER forget this and don't let it stop you from playing and improving.

Great reply Wavegoodbye.

I disagree with some points you make.

Determining if you are likely a winning sng player after 100 sngs is not impossible, if your roi is high enough. See the table above for the way to determine if this is likely the case. Your results, however, will be updating as you go, and you may find out that your results change drastically. HUGE Kudos to wave for pointing this out, and encouraging people to consistently re-evaluate results.

Since you are dropping limits should you lose, a shorter bankroll of $1,000 for the $22 sngs will eventually allow you to reach the stakes necessary for optimal bankroll/cashout performance. I fully agree that to STAY at the $22 level permananently, your bankroll should be higher.

If your overall performance is 25% roi, it's very statistically unlikely that you will have a streak of 500+ sngs where your roi is negative. It is a statistical improbability. The table above that consists of roi% to determine if you are a winner is pretty accurate.

what do you mean if your overall performance is 25%? over how many sngs?

There is a lot of bad information in this whole thread.

check out 2+2's STT forum for real info.

why would you play so low if your raping the game? why not move up?

I love moving up in stages. Although I am sufficiently bankrolled to play $30 sngs, I play anything from $6.50 to $30. Your plan will work! (just remember to pay yourself along the way)

Great post, thank you.

This may be the best thread i have read on this site. Its great to see different points of view being discussed without insults being thrown back and forth.

As for Jenn's post, I think that her strategy is very sound and that there are many players that would see a drastic improvement in their bankroll management by using it. This structured of a system might not be neccessary for players that are disciplined enough to manage their bankroll, but there probably isn't any low limit players that this system would not be beneficial for.

As other posters have mentioned it is extremely important to chart your results. If you do not want to spend some of your precious bankroll on pockertracker (like me), or you do not feel technoligically intelligent enough to use free websites, spread sheets, or whatever other techno information charting gadgets there are out there (also like me...i barely have the technological ability to create this post), I use a very primitive but simple system. It is called a spiral notebook. For a couple bucks i purchased a 5 section notebook and keep it right next to my comp. I currently play on three sites, so for each site i designate a section in my notebook simply to keep track of my bankroll for that site. At the beginning of each session I right down the date and my current BR balance. This allows me to see very quickly how I have been doing for the last few days, weeks, or even months. I also will record all my cashouts in this section as well. I also keep a running total of cashouts on the last page of the notebook section. In the fourth section I track my sng play. I do this simply like a win loss record. Instead of 2 columns (wins/losses), though, I have four...1st, 2nds, 3rds, and X (non-cash). I keep a "win/loss" chart for each level (for me primarily $5-$10, and rarely $20). At the end of each month I total how much i spent in entry fees, and of course how much I won. Pretty simple with a calculator (which also taxes my technology skills depending on the calculator). In the 5th section I record my MTT play in two columns: entry fees and prize money. At the end of the month I can again easily total my fees and prize money.

This system works for me so I thought I would share it for anybody that hasn't been tracking their play b/c they don't want to spend $, or has my level of tech. skills.

Again, great post, Jenn. Also great replys from ebody else.

Coach

p.s. another great aspect of the notebook system is that you can flip the notebook over, use a stapler (well within my tech. skills) to attatch a piece of felt, and practice shuffling chips while you play. : )

rank Jennifear (if she posts a pic)

I have been asked by many to clarify the "tax" part of the original post.

When I say to tax yourself 10% of gross winnings, what I mean is that if you win $10 in an event, take out $1, and no longer include this in your bankroll total.

When you get to the minimum withdrawal amount, get it out.

Hope that helps clear it up.

It's all rigged. Just push with deuces and smile. :)
This is all very sound advice. I started with a $50 deposit on stars and went right to the $11 sngs. I was a fool for doing it. But I felt my skills justified my starting limit. I was also prepared to redeposit if necessary. I was a donk and this will not work for all. So now I have to agree with my good friend Jenn. Having guidelines/goals to help you along the way will only make it more enjoyable when you acheive them.
papoorboy

hi lightning!

Sounds like you are buying into this...pls tell me how it works out over time

1. Yes. If you use this system, you should be paying yourself 10% of all earnings back, if you are aspiring to move up again. If not, and you are happy at the level you are at, then I recommend a higher number like 50%.

2. I do multi the sngs, but I defer tips to the more experienced multitablers here...heres what I have found useful.

- Play no more than you are comfortable with. No reason to be stressed out while you play. Better to play one at a time for a profit than four for a loss.

- Stagger start times so that you aren't shorthanded in too many at a time. If you are succeeding it will be important to focus...remember playing 4 tables three-handed is similar to the stress of playing ten full tables at once.

- Be sure you are crushing the level before you multitable at all.

- If you are just learning to multitable, start slow, add 1 table at a time. Dont jump from 1-4.

Great write-up. I have slowly learned over the months what it is to manage my bankroll. I had no concept of this and would be playing SNG's way out of my buy-in range. Every so often i would get on a roll and make alot of money b/c I was hitting good, then i would slowly lose all of it b/c I was playing with 10-15% of my bankroll instead of 3-5% which has shown to really be a good number for me to build my bankroll when times get tough. I have started to implement alot of what you have said in this piece and I am slowly starting to build something for myself. It takes alot of patience but it is worth it b/c I am not buying more chips every week! Thanks a ton.

Brett