Jennifear's advice pertaining to low pocket pairs is, frankly, off base imho. One definately needs more than 25x the bb to be limping early with the small pairs. Look at it like this:

The chances of a limped pot with any kind of substantial blinds (and especially when antes come into play) is low. I think that early position limps generally increase other players tendency to raise behind as well. That being said, lets say the average raise is 3-4x the bb. Pretty standard there. We all know the chances of hitting a set are approximately 1 in 8, or abot 12.5%. this means that to justify putting in 3 to 4x the blind, you need to win about 30 to 40 bb EVERY time you hit a set in order to make up for the chips you put in when you don't hit a set. (I like to use approximately a 1:10 ratio because sometimes you will get your chips in against a higher set and more often against a flush or straight draw that makes it. 1:10 is generous when these variables are considered).

Can we expect to get in 30-40 bb every time we hit a set? NO!!! With the lag style that is prevalent these days, alot of players are playing preflop and post flop loose and turn and river significantly tighter. Additionally, you can't win 30-40 bb hu anyway, so now we are hoping for a multiway pot. Additionally, hands like 1010, jj, qq, kk and ak that can be expected to stack off are going to become marginalized a large percentage of the time. Ak only makes a pair one in three times, and the chances of an overcard falling with the aforementioned pairs are about 60%, 45%, 30% and 15% respectively. Even AA is not immune to flops so scary that it can be laid down by a player with a pulse.

Granted I haven't played tournaments for some time, as I am now exclusively a cash game players, however I really think one needs to consider that the idea that every time you limp early position, one can suceed in getting correct pot odds to setmine AND get all your chips in (implied odds) against a big pair is too much to except. Like the citation from Negraneau and others in the article, small pocket pairs in early position will not make you money at the end of the year.

So what would it take for me to limp with a small pair early? Without any attention to table conditions I would say 50:1 would be the point at which I would consider actually playing the little pairs instead of just throwing that garbage out!

Good luck players.

Well said mindtrip954. I agree.

I kinda would like to know jennifear, where you draw the line of low limit and high limit games.

I have played both limits in sngsl and MTTs as my bankroll has grown from 9 months ago, and I have to disagree with both ur numbers, the 5bb and 25 bb rule, basically because they are cookie cutter advice that really doesnt make us better situational pokerplayers. In fact ur article is trying to say the same thing as what HArrington says in his book Harrington on Holdem Volume II, agreat tourney book BTW but it ius much more vague and really not useful except for people that are extreme noobs to NLHE.

As far as the 25bb rule, this may have been the case a while ago, but even at the low limits, players are much more aggressive now and thus cutt your implied odds with these hands significantly. I mean even in the 3 and 5 rebuys on stars, and the ten dollar freezeouts on stars and FT, it would be extremely unprofitablw to open limp these pairs with only 25 bb, it simply is not enough, and is mathematically incorrect

No matter which person you agree with (and it probably does depend quite a bit on the limits you play) both Jennifear's article and CrabClaws rebuttal are well thought out, well written pieces and excellent contributions to the site.

This is a small PP

pokerstars Game #10307365240: Tournament #51837846, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2007/06/06 - 20:26:21 (ET)
Table '51837846 36' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Chazmental (5590 in chips)
Seat 2: unta (3585 in chips)
Seat 3: cbacker48 (2945 in chips)
Seat 4: CS Canuck (5810 in chips)
Seat 5: RingoStar5 (10420 in chips)
Seat 6: icurcard5 (3860 in chips)
Seat 7: IRISHNIGHTS (8015 in chips)
Seat 8: FullDraw33 (5260 in chips)
Seat 9: fatburner65 (10425 in chips)
icurcard5: posts small blind 100
IRISHNIGHTS: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Chazmental [2c 2s]
FullDraw33: folds
fatburner65: calls 200
Chazmental: folds
unta: calls 200
cbacker48: calls 200
CS Canuck: calls 200
RingoStar5: folds
icurcard5: calls 100
IRISHNIGHTS: checks
*** FLOP *** [2d Kh 2h]
icurcard5: checks
IRISHNIGHTS: checks
fatburner65: bets 400
unta: folds
cbacker48: folds
CS Canuck: folds
icurcard5: folds
IRISHNIGHTS: folds
fatburner65 collected 1200 from pot
fatburner65: doesn't show hand

The EP limper was repoping raises from there alot. I didnt even think 2wice about playing this hand.

Come on Chaz..I'm definitely calling
You have plenty of chips and if it gets raised huge and you gotta fold, you lose 200...big deal.  Im sure youre not the only one who noticed what the limper was doing, which decreases the likelihood of a raise.

I limp all day 22 there. whatever happened to 7.5x1

Yes but risking like 1/27th your stack to see a flop is well worth it...youre not losing any fold equity by losing 200

What you described as his tendenacy to reraise a later raiser is not exhibited in the hand you posted...if anything it just shows he's an awful player who will give you all his chips when he flops a mediocre hand and you hit a set.

 

Don't forget that you can't rechip like you can in a cash game.

You don't get raised every time, and sometimes you get raised and have a caller in between.

Remebmer Jenn did say low limits. Your dealing with players who mostly have no concept of posistion or pot odds or implied odds.

Ive never limped in a hand in my life. Which is probably why im so horrible. Im a raiser or folder.