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KK bad play?

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  1. indigo975 indigo975 is offline

    Săo Paulo
    Brazil

    Posts: 7
    Joined: Oct 08

    Nov 5th, 2008 (11/5/2008 7:01pm)

    I am new to poker, just been playing real money for two months since i got some money with freerolls. I am showing a hand here and would like some coments, i believe both of us played really bad but the other guy got some luck.
    pokerstars Game #21792215347: Tournament #118662790, $3.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2008/11/05 19:42:58 ET
    Table '118662790 1' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
    Seat 3: CAPTKRP (2298 in chips)
    Seat 4: JR 294 (9450 in chips)
    Seat 5: Malio888 (3076 in chips)
    Seat 6: tazeez (8000 in chips)
    Seat 7: Luca G. (5012 in chips)
    Seat 8: ulliulrich (3310 in chips)
    Seat 9: Indigo975 (9354 in chips)
    JR 294: posts small blind 100
    Malio888: posts big blind 200
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Indigo975 [Kc Kh]
    tazeez: raises 200 to 400
    Luca G.: folds
    ulliulrich: folds
    Indigo975: raises 600 to 1000
    CAPTKRP: folds
    JR 294: folds
    Malio888: folds
    tazeez: raises 600 to 1600
    Indigo975: calls 600
    *** FLOP *** [Ac 3c Ad]
    tazeez: checks
    Indigo975: checks
    *** TURN *** [Ac 3c Ad] [Jc]
    tazeez: checks
    Indigo975: checks
    *** RIVER *** [Ac 3c Ad Jc] [5c]
    tazeez: bets 1200
    Indigo975: raises 6554 to 7754 and is all-in
    tazeez: calls 5200 and is all-in
    Uncalled bet (1354) returned to Indigo975
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    Indigo975: shows [Kc Kh] (a flush, Ace high)
    tazeez: shows [5h As] (a full house, Aces full of Fives)
    tazeez collected 16300 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 16300 | Rake 0
    Board [Ac 3c Ad Jc 5c]
    Seat 3: CAPTKRP (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: JR 294 (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 5: Malio888 (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 6: tazeez showed [5h As] and won (16300) with a full house, Aces full of Fives
    Seat 7: Luca G. folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: ulliulrich folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: Indigo975 showed [Kc Kh] and lost with a flush, Ace high
  2. Zunga Zunga is offline

    Powell River
    Canada

    Posts: 186
    Joined: Jan 08

    Nov 6th, 2008 (11/6/2008 10:45am) in reply to indigo975

    When he re-re-raised to 1600 pre, then you should have shoved. If he makes a shit call with A-5, then KK would have lost here, but your value in that position over the long run if great.
  3. Klepto05 Klepto05 is offline

    Bristol, CT
    United States

    Posts: 92
    Joined: Nov 08

    Nov 6th, 2008 (11/6/2008 10:51am) in reply to Zunga

    I agree, and why go all in on the river? You are only getting called with the nuts. If he has nothing and you raise he folds, and you win his original bet. If you just call and he is bluffing, you win his original bet. If you call and he has trips or a boat, you have minimal losses. Shoving there is a terrible play, it has absolutely no value.
  4. cassettecounty cassettecounty is offline

    Orlando, FL
    United States

    Posts: 716
    Joined: May 08

    Nov 6th, 2008 (11/6/2008 10:56am) in reply to indigo975

    Interesting hand. I'll try to analyze street-by-street:

    I have no idea what Taz was trying to accomplish 3-betting A5 offsuit out of position. I don't mind your smooth call of the 3-bet, but you also could've 4-bet big, or all-in. There's one hand you're afraid of. You want every other holding to call. If dude still calls with A5 offsuit, he needs his head examined and you need to get into games with him as often as possible.

    On the flop, your check behind is fine if you think he may be trapping. Depending on the opponent, I may bet that flop if I think he'll call with his own pocket pair (QQ, JJ, etc). But there's nothing wrong with a check, if you think he's the type to trap.

    Same for the turn; checking behind is fine. You have showdown value with KK, and if you think there's a chance he's still trapping, checking is fine.

    The river is interesting. You've backed into the nut flush, but the board is paired.

    Your checks on both the flop and turn indicate you thought he might've outflopped you. If that's the case, raising all in on the river is a bad idea because you're most likely only going to get called by a better hand. If I'm him, with four clubs out, I'd be hard-pressed to call with even trip aces, unless (possibly) I had the Q of clubs. But if he had trip aces, he likely would've bet earlier in the hand with the flush materializing. I have no idea what he's got, but the size of his river bet leads me to believe he's strong.

    His bet of only 1200 reeks of a "please-call!" value bet, considering he re-raised to 1600 preflop.

    In this situation, I'd have simply called his river bet and hoped the flush was good.
  5. Klepto05 Klepto05 is offline

    Bristol, CT
    United States

    Posts: 92
    Joined: Nov 08

    Nov 6th, 2008 (11/6/2008 11:13am) in reply to cassettecounty

    Didn't even notice the flush... Now I can see why you would push, but I still would never push there. Maybe, just maybe you get called with Qc (probably not though), and then its back to my original point that you will only get called with the nuts. Flat calling there is really the only play. Raising has extremelly low value.
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