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KK in BB vs UTG Limp Shove....thoughts?

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  1. potraider potraider is offline

    United States

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    Nov 19th, 2008 (11/19/2008 8:14pm)

    So, it's been a couple weeks since this board last discussed folding KK preflop.....while playing about 30 spots outside the bubble (no, I was not overly concerned about bubbling after having knocked out Lee Watkinson earlier in the tourney for his bounty and my first tee shirt - boom goes the dynamite!) in the $24 buy in $21K Guarantee I wake up to KK in BB. UTG player almost instantly limps which just created a sick feeling in my stomach from the get go. Of course it folds to the SB, who calls, and i make it 3.75 BB total only to be shoved on by UTG limper for the rest of my stack and all but 142 of his....such a gross spot.....I win this hand and I'm in the top 25 with 135 to go...I fold it pre and I'd be right below avgerage stack, but still with a playable 15 BB left....... Do you ever fold in this situation preflop? Full Tilt Poker Game #9064704604: $21,000 Guarantee (69218049), Table 13 - 500/1000 Ante 125 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:48:09 ET - 2008/11/19 Seat 1: JLOX420 (18,682) Seat 2: ghettoperl (22,432) Seat 3: thechamp7711 (8,403) Seat 4: acumen53 (10,267) Seat 5: Brett7192 (13,870) Seat 6: aconatser (57,203) Seat 7: Leopold01 (13,740) Seat 8: udontsay (25,680) Seat 9: kmillionaire83 (18,540) JLOX420 antes 125 ghettoperl antes 125 thechamp7711 antes 125 acumen53 antes 125 Brett7192 antes 125 aconatser antes 125 Leopold01 antes 125 udontsay antes 125 kmillionaire83 antes 125 udontsay posts the small blind of 500 kmillionaire83 posts the big blind of 1,000 The button is in seat #7 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to kmillionaire83 [Kd Kc] JLOX420 calls 1,000 ghettoperl folds thechamp7711 folds acumen53 folds Brett7192 folds aconatser folds Leopold01 folds udontsay calls 500 kmillionaire83 has 15 seconds left to act kmillionaire83 raises to 3,750 JLOX420 has 15 seconds left to act JLOX420 raises to 18,557, and is all in udontsay folds kmillionaire83 has 15 seconds left to act kmillionaire83 calls 14,665, and is all in JLOX420 shows [Ad Ac] kmillionaire83 shows [Kd Kc] Uncalled bet of 142 returned to JLOX420 *** FLOP *** [Jh 6h 3c] *** TURN *** [Jh 6h 3c] [Ah] *** RIVER *** [Jh 6h 3c Ah] [5h] JLOX420 shows three of a kind, Aces kmillionaire83 shows a pair of Kings JLOX420 wins the pot (38,955) with three of a kind, Aces kmillionaire83 stands up *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 38,955 | Rake 0 Board: [Jh 6h 3c Ah 5h] Seat 1: JLOX420 showed [Ad Ac] and won (38,955) with three of a kind, Aces Seat 2: ghettoperl folded before the Flop Seat 3: thechamp7711 folded before the Flop Seat 4: acumen53 folded before the Flop Seat 5: Brett7192 folded before the Flop Seat 6: aconatser folded before the Flop Seat 7: Leopold01 (button) folded before the Flop Seat 8: udontsay (small blind) folded before the Flop Seat 9: kmillionaire83 (big blind) showed [Kd Kc] and lost with a pair of Kings
     
  2. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

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    Nov 19th, 2008 (11/19/2008 8:20pm) in reply to potraider

    i can't read that garbled mess of a hh...but i know it involves KK in a pre-flop spot. the answer is: DON'T FOLD!!
    170 2 

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  3. yogiblair yogiblair is offline

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    Nov 19th, 2008 (11/19/2008 8:25pm) in reply to potraider

    If folding KK preflop means leaving myself with 15BB's, then I am sad to say I am just simply not that good to fold them! There are very situations that I can see myself folding Cowboys preflop, but this is not one of them!

    You run into Bullets so be it brother! Move on to the next!
  4. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

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    Nov 19th, 2008 (11/19/2008 8:29pm) in reply to potraider

     
    Originally Posted by potraider View Post

    So, it's been a couple weeks since this board last discussed folding KK preflop.....

    ...seriously? ther'es like 4 threads a day on this topic, and the answer is always the same: no, you can't fold KK pre-flop
    170 2 
  5. SeRiaL SeRiaL is offline

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    Nov 19th, 2008 (11/19/2008 8:29pm) in reply to potraider

    You don't have a deep enough stack to fold. A lot of people like to limp UTG with AQ,AK, TT+ and push to any raise thinking its a race IF they get called. Don't fold. I think he has AK here more often then not though...
  6. MuiMuiBueno MuiMuiBueno is offline

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    Nov 19th, 2008 (11/19/2008 8:38pm) in reply to SeRiaL

    online in regular donkaments folding KK ever simply isnt right except in some very special circumstances... that i havent run into ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

    snapcall as he is not only limpshoving AA, obv AA is a part of this raneg as is AQ, AK, 77-QQ.

    SHOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HIGH5 MONITOR and dont even watch the board switch to the porn video u were watching before the hand
  7. andressoprano andressoprano is offline whaddya think of my game?

    Anchorage, AK
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    Nov 19th, 2008 (11/19/2008 9:00pm) in reply to potraider

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEE, NOT ANOTHER THREAD ASKING IF IT'S OK TO FOLD KK PRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    AGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     1
  8. MuiMuiBueno MuiMuiBueno is offline

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    Nov 19th, 2008 (11/19/2008 9:08pm) in reply to andressoprano

     
    Originally Posted by andressoprano View Post

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEE, NOT ANOTHER THREAD ASKING IF IT'S OK TO FOLD KK PRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    AGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    lol this is so true, the funny thing is is that they r all so obviously results-oriented its hilarious. like no1 ever posts the hands where they called and the guy had 99 and they won lol its mindboggling how people think that kings r foldable
  9. djkelly69 djkelly69 is offline

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    Nov 19th, 2008 (11/19/2008 9:20pm) in reply to MuiMuiBueno

     
    Originally Posted by MuiMuiBueno View Post

    dont even watch the board switch to the porn video u were watching before the hand

    haha so true!
  10. Ace_upmy_Slv 73 Ace_upmy_Slv 73 is offline

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    Nov 19th, 2008 (11/19/2008 9:46pm) in reply to potraider

    Let me preface by saying that all situations are different and it's so hard to answer these questions when we don't have all the info we need to properly respond. You really need a feel for the game and player at that time to help you make these reads. Have you played with him before, has he showed he is capable of making this play without AA, etc. That being said....

    There are 2 situations that scare me. Post flop min raises/checkraises/reraise when the intial bet is a good size bet and limp reraises UTG. I usually fold ANY hand and I mean any hand that is not the nuts to these situations until a player has proven to me already that he is capable of making this play without the stone cold nuts. Of course in a tounrey that leaves you short stacked or doesn't give you the opportunity to gain the proper information you need it is different. I will ALWAYS stick to this rule in cash games, but late in a tourney is rough. I do think you can fold KK in this situation. I would state that you are folding KK before you fold. Most players that have bluffed you off of KK can be induced into showing you their hand to prove to everyone how great of a player they are. That will at least give you the info you will need in the future when you play against this player. This doesn;t always happen, but its worth a shot. I would defintiely get a running conversation with the guy afterwards and try to get more info on if he had AA or not. ALWAYS make a note of it for future use.

    Not sure if that helps at all.....

    On another note, seriously, what the hell kind of format is that post? That is such an eyesore for people to read and will definitely cut down on you getting serious responses. Also, what in the world is this:

    (no, I was not overly concerned about bubbling after having knocked out Lee Watkinson earlier in the tourney for his bounty and my first tee shirt - boom goes the dynamite!)

    Boom goes the dynamite? Really? Seriously? I seriously almost stopped reading after this, lol.
     
  11. potraider potraider is offline

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    Nov 19th, 2008 (11/19/2008 10:49pm) in reply to Ace_upmy_Slv 73

    Hi Ace, thanks for the reply. I apologize that the initial post was all jumbled as opposed to spaced out as it looked when i copy and pasted it. If an administrator can edit the initial post to make it look appropriate that would be much appreciated. As far as the "boom goes the dynamite" quote - please refer to youtube.com and watch the video and I'm sure you'll find some humor in it. This was just a sick spot in the MTT, regardless of the outcome of the hand. This wasn't meant to be a brag or whine post. Just wanted to hear some feedback from some successful regular MTTers like yourself.
     
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