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KK with an EP raiser, FTOPS#1

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  1. TamaTime TamaTime is offline

    MO
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    Feb 12th, 2007 (2/12/2007 5:35pm)

    Please vote for your optimal preflop play, I am pretty sure I already know what I should be doing in this situation, just seeking verification.

    Blinds 100/200 at FTOPS#1, I have played uber tight (seen 15 flops / 140 hands) all game with a range of 88+, aq+.. I have 3630 in chips about 1 min before the 2nd hr break. 910 of the original 1920 entrants remain, 306 paid... Have seen about 20 hands at this table, at the beginning villian raised pre 5 straight hands with no callers. He claimed to have "AA 99 AK AQ xx" , all solid holdings.

    Villian makes it 550 EP (2.75X BB)
    MP 1 & 2 Fold
    I am next to act:
    It looks like a strange bet to me, I have 3 options:

    A) Flat call, Pro: I have heard calling huge hands maximizes value, Con: my M is about 10
    B) Reraise to 1800-2200, Pro: shows alot of strength, Con: commits me to pot but doesn't give me much FE
    C) Reraise All in to 3630, Pro: Good chance to double stack or take down pot preflop, Con: only get action if villain has a real hand

    so what should i do p5s, call raise or push??
  2. Rev.K Rev.K is offline

    Calgary
    Canada

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    Feb 12th, 2007 (2/12/2007 5:42pm) in reply to TamaTime

    There's only 1 hand that would make a better chance of doubling up and it may never come.

    Shove.

    If he has A-A, oh well. Hopefully he had A-K and you took it down.
  3. BigBukkinChickn BigBukkinChickn is offline

    Columbia, SC
    United States

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    Feb 12th, 2007 (2/12/2007 6:48pm) in reply to TamaTime

    as much as i say i hate it and how bad of a play it is...the minimum (or raise to near 1200) may be the right play here. however its very situational...think of this.

    your in a spot that if you dont pick up a decent pot soon then your going to be short stacked.

    if you shove hes probaly only going to call with ak aa kk qq or jj (maybe even fold jj). so you dont have a very great chance of getting a full double off of it, which is what your looking for. also this may shut out alot of potential hands behind you that might get their money in there with a smaller pp or a hand like aq suited. still wouldnt be a bad play though considering youd pick up 850 even if he didnt call.

    i do and dont like the flat call here for different reasons. i like it because he knows hes looked very aggressive and thinks you might be calling him with trash, plus if he has a hand like jj TT 99 88 and the flop doesnt come too high, you might be able to stuff all you chips in on the flop and get a call. however i do not like it for the fact that your letting alot of other people into the pot cheaply with a potential ace because they all know hes been aggressive also and may make some loose calls.

    i dont think i would ever raise to just 1800-2200...this is half your stack already and he will probaly fold. but this may be a good safe play.

    like i said i hate it but it may work in this situation. make a small raise something that he will definitely call with or someone behind may make a loose call with with bad implied odds. if the flop comes low and hes still got a pp he may just move you in...if not id say push it right there and he might think you missed the flop with ak. or you could always check it behind him on the flop with your position.

    by the way i took 2nd in this event. and id like to know what play you made and how it turned out.
     
  4. parsifals parsifals is offline

    Taiwan

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    Feb 12th, 2007 (2/12/2007 7:50pm) in reply to BigBukkinChickn

    i sort of agree with the min raise, too.

    you don't want him to fold, that's for sure. i think any more substantial reraise will get him to fold. i think that if he's going all in, he's going all in--by which i mean, if he would call your all-in with a subpair hand (88 or less, AJ, etc), he would probably be enough of a maniac to jam with that hand right after the flop.

    the min raise warns away overcalls and guarantees some action. it builds a big pot that he will fight tooth and nail for if he catches, say, TPTK with jacks.

    you can't worry about aces here, it doesn't matter if the raise is suspicious--i mean obviously, this is a great situation.

    and the big raise shows too much strength, so if it's a choice between the flat call, the big raise, and the all-in, i think the all-in has a great chance of getting a subpair hand, like 66, to call. he'll think you're frustrated and don't believe he has anything, and so he'll overvalue his own holding.
  5. BigBukkinChickn BigBukkinChickn is offline

    Columbia, SC
    United States

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    Feb 12th, 2007 (2/12/2007 8:34pm) in reply to parsifals

    "i think the all-in has a great chance of getting a subpair hand, like 66, to call. he'll think you're frustrated and don't believe he has anything, and so he'll overvalue his own holding."

    very good point. this probaly is another reason to go ahead and put in the all in raise. i know i love 66 alot more when someones pushing into my big stack then when someone does a small rr.
     
  6. TamaTime TamaTime is offline

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    Feb 12th, 2007 (2/12/2007 9:02pm) in reply to BigBukkinChickn

    my read was along your same lines. shoving all in actually looks like a weaker play than reraising to 2000. it looks like an aq+ kind of move..

    i ended up shoving all in.. folds around to villian, who instacalls aa..

    i don't regret the way i played it, getting towards shortstacked and needed to make a +ev move.. just ran into bad luck..
    Thread Starter
  7. parsifals parsifals is offline

    Taiwan

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    Feb 12th, 2007 (2/12/2007 11:15pm) in reply to TamaTime

    "i don't regret the way i played it, getting towards shortstacked and needed to make a +ev move.. just ran into bad luck.."

    always important to recognize when you did the right thing and it just went wrong.

    figured he must have had AA, on account of the fact you posted it in the first place. either that or he folded and you regretted it.
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