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KK Preflop against a 5-bet shove

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  1. Rafael Zanetti Rafael Zanetti is offline

    Rio Grande
    Brazil

    Posts: 8
    Joined: May 10

    Sep 6th, 2010 (9/6/2010 3:10pm)

    Tournament:

    Field: 3700 - 170 left, 10+1 BI 6,8k for the winner

    Hero (me): 120k chips
    Villain (TAG): 145k chips play 15% of hands and showdown only monsters

    Avarage: 65k

    Blinds: 1500/3000

    Hero: KK

    Hero (UTG) Raise to 6500
    table fold
    Villain (BB) Re-raise to 19500
    Hero re-raise to 58900
    Villain re-raise shove all in

    The question is: Is possible somebody here fold KK pre-flop? I knew he had AA, but unfortunely I call and I was right.
  2. Bjizzle44 Bjizzle44 is offline

    Gainesville, FL
    United States

    Posts: 126
    Joined: Nov 09

    Sep 6th, 2010 (9/6/2010 3:42pm) in reply to Rafael Zanetti

    cooler. dont know where i ever fold kk pre. unless im more interested in the pay jumps than the win.

    bjizz
  3. okse54 okse54 is offline

    New York, NY
    United States

    Posts: 3,692
    Joined: Nov 07

    Sep 6th, 2010 (9/6/2010 6:29pm) in reply to Bjizzle44

    doubt im ever folding, but u should prob think about what ur trying to accomplish with ur 4bet

    u obv think hes never 5bet shoving with worse so clearly u didnt do it to get him to stack off with worse, and tbh ur raise is to 60k with 60k behind, besides the fact that ur raise looks uber strong, if hes not willing to 5bet shove with a hand i think its safe to say hes not going to flat the 60k and evaluate flop and maybe fold to a half pot shove.

    on the one hand u seem to imply hes never continueing with a worse hand when u raise, yet u make the raise, u dont want to be raising with KK and be hoping the guy folds, just makes no sense

    i would do 1 of 2 things here, either shove which shouldnt look as strong as raising half ur stack and should make him feel more comfertable snapping with AK/QQ and maybe others. or if u still feel hes gona be folding worse hands if u shove, just flat and keep his whole range in play and try to extract the extra value from worse

    but basicly most important is to be asking urself wat u want to accomplish with ur raise, if when ur about to raise u ask urself will he continue with QQ or AK and u feel the answer is no, then u might want to reconsider what ur about to do
     
  4. Rafael Zanetti Rafael Zanetti is offline

    Rio Grande
    Brazil

    Posts: 8
    Joined: May 10

    Sep 6th, 2010 (9/6/2010 9:17pm) in reply to okse54

    okse54, perfectly...

    When I 4-bet, I hope him fold or flat... for me shove on the flop. When he 5bet shove I knew that Im fucked! And I blame myself to dont know fold this hand, seems impossible to me... Exactly knowing his holding a AA.

    On that situation, you make de call?
    Thread Starter
  5. car_t_a car_t_a is offline

    IA
    United States

    Posts: 396
    Joined: Oct 05

    Sep 9th, 2010 (9/9/2010 7:13pm) in reply to Rafael Zanetti

    Once you start folding KK in a tournament you are losing value on them. Aside from a satty situation folding KK pre is a mistake. period.
  6. nutzkrackr nutzkrackr is offline

    Miami, FL
    United States

    Posts: 18
    Joined: Jul 10

    Sep 16th, 2010 (9/16/2010 1:24am) in reply to car_t_a

    great players make great laydowns...u knew the spot u were in, but didnt trust it. this isnt a cah game, and folding a potentially +ev hand in order to live longer in the tourny is sometimes a good play. the current thinking is not always right, and play styles trend as much as fashion does. right now, most are hooked on constantly pushing slight +ev at every situation possible. this is great in cash, but not always correct in many tournament situations imo. sometimes u just have to trust ur read and play accordingly, all the great players do...

    and ditto on oske54's reply. the real mistake was made on the way u did the 4bet...
     
  7. guitarguy guitarguy is offline

    Posts: 18
    Joined: Sep 10

    Sep 17th, 2010 (9/17/2010 9:49pm) in reply to nutzkrackr

    You just have to pay off AA when that happens. I'd watch this video if you're really thinking about folding pocket kings...
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