You can't fold ever here. Ignoring for a second that he'd be retarded to shove the 8 like that, you lose to 3 hands. JJ and AA out of position both reraise pre from his spot, right? Out of position to the cutoff and the button caller... There's no reason for him to shove the 8 here ever, so you've just ruled out every hand that you lose to.

If he tricked you and freakishly has one of those, you're just out of the tournament. He could be doing this with so many different jacks that it's not funny, and if he is tricking you with not reraising aa or jj pre, then qq and possibly the other kk could be part of his range too. It doesn't matter, I'm overanalyzing, you call 100%.

 

Originally Posted by Admiral

wow, never fold

agree, ul if you are beat.

Fist pump call and laugh when he shows AK or 99

Mr. min raiser shows up with Jx or worse so often.. "I have a boat. How can I lose??"

Hellmuth you stack in the middle as fast as possible. If guy has an 8 congrats.

sounds like you have been watching alot of bonds videos lol

if you are checking back this flop and then just flatting the turn. im guessing your plan was to just flat the river??? your gonna lose alot of value this way, im leading flop and turn, and on tht board im not folding to resistance.

 

Originally Posted by EyeKnows

bet the flop please.

never fold here please.

+1. No way this thread is real

so the Small Blind had an 8?

post results plz

 

Originally Posted by ajedrez

+1. No way this thread is real

 

Originally Posted by matze_widi

this

fair enough. Sadly this thread is real. I have been playing more cash lately and noticed that my winrate during a session where I am mostly playing for ~30-40 effective BB is much, much, much higher than my "winrate" when we are moving 80 BB and over. So I am pretty sure I sucks at the deep stack but in retooling I recognize I have probably become too passive.

Here is my possibly far too passive mind set. With all of us 90BB and up Villain ranges open up a lot. So I check the flop:

a. expecting dr to bet, as I said he has been pretty active and seems a little bluffy. Depending on bet sizing, Mike's response, and how I feel I will then either just call or make a medium size (60% pot) raise.

b. hoping to keep the bet sizing low enough to keep in the Js9s-AK I have in their range for future bets while minimizing my losses to the 6s8s, 7s8s, 8s9s, 8s10s I also have in their range.

c. hoping to underep my hand strength.

On turn I am hoping to induce a bluff from one or both as I think I have any of their Jx hands good and trapped and the fourth 8 is a lot less likely. If I don't get the bluff I am making a ridiculous overbet on the river and hoping someone reads it as an attempt to drive their Jx hand out.

Then I get what I want but not anything like I expected it to look like. The min raise on that board with two others in is... well it is so retarded that is looks really hinky to me. The then over push of >80BB for the 30% of that that is in the pot is also... offputting.

Obviously I lost this hand so I have some of that result oriented issue going on, but in reviewing the hand I had to wonder if this was not another deep stack type problem that I really overplayed. But since everybody so far has told me that the call , was right I will take that as absolution of my play.

Thanks for all the responses.

lol this guy can have like any J and is just assuming hes splitting

I'm going to be in the minority, but stacking an overpair 120bbs in 3 way action on this board is not a cooler. Especially with the small blind in the hand.

Since I'm lazy and don't think through things, I most likely snap here.

But is an 8 really out of the question? Less likely, but still possible JJ or AA?

drron had 8x and MikeMcd Jx?

 

Originally Posted by LokiToki

an 8 is not out the question nor is JJ or AA, that's not the issue. He's showing up with hands that you beat way more often than not = easy call

It's 120bbs not 40. And look at the preflop action- there wasn't any where hand ranges could be more defined. 8 is easily in play on both of villians' holdings. One is spewing off top pair and the other is getting full value for his quad 8s.

You never lay down KK as an overpair that deep in 3 way action?

I don't do it often, but I'd definitely consider it here.

 

Originally Posted by FenwayKing

1. Bet for value on the flop. I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish by checking here. It also helps define their hand ranges much better so you're not playing a complete guessing game on the turn.

2. The minraise by drron is pretty interesting. It's cliche but when a random donk minraises, a lot of the times it's him saying "I have the goods." Or he has jackshit and is raising to find out "where he's at." But I don't think the 2nd reasoning makes sense too much in this hand. Especially the timedown-minraise...I mean, really? A lot of trouble would've been saved by you betting on the flop though. I think that really fucked up the hand and now your KK is sort of underrepped. I'd probably sighclick-call in game but I'd be very concerned about drron showing up with an 8 here.

Does anyone good think we can find a fold here? I know we haz the KK and our hand is underrepped and although I think we're definitely ahead of Mike's range, do you guys think we are ahead of drron's? I don't see a naked jack just minraising here unless he's completely spazzy/terrible. Putting someone on quads with 3 out there is meh, but I just don't see him showing up here with worse than KK here. And even terrible players get or make hands sometimes which is something people tend to forget.

Some good thoughts here.
1. When you say bet the flop for hand definition, what are you going to do if you put out a cbet and get 70% pot raised on that flop? With 30 BB I am snap calling, with 100BB I am hanging my head and saying god dammit there goes another big stack. I really think 8s are in both villains ranges and that mike at least can fold a weak J to a flop bet but not a turn bet so what am I accomplishing with a flop bet here? Value from AJ, KJ, QQ, maybe QJ but at the risk of really inflating the pot with a hand that is already either way ahead or way behind.
2. yeah it is a cliche for a reason, the minbet is frightening. It would of course be fine if Mike doesn't then spaz out and hyper inflate the pot.