Hand #3, 1st level

pokerstars Game #7285494310: Tournament #36312328, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (40/80) - 2006/12/03 - 16:35:37 (ET)
Table '36312328 213' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: BALLEJON (11180 in chips)
Seat 2: v24601 (9960 in chips)
Seat 3: DahJinerat (10160 in chips)
Seat 4: ImaLucSac (10030 in chips)
Seat 5: Pokerm�klarn (9190 in chips)
Seat 6: badbeatbroad (9880 in chips)
Seat 7: dapaca (9840 in chips)
Seat 8: apestyles (9880 in chips)
Seat 9: Roxiejean (9880 in chips)
BALLEJON: posts small blind 40
v24601: posts big blind 80
*** HOLE CARDS ***
<span>Dealt to DahJinerat [Kd Kh]</span>
<span>DahJinerat: raises 160 to 240</span>
ImaLucSac: folds
Pokerm�klarn: folds
badbeatbroad: folds
dapaca: folds
apestyles: folds
Roxiejean: folds
<span>BALLEJON: raises 880 to 1120-<span> <span>no reads since this is the 3rd hand.. I showed strength raising UTG, and his reraise from SB shows a TON of strength</span></span></span>
v24601: folds
<span>DahJinerat: calls 880<span>- I really put him on big hand here AA, KK, or QQ, w/ small possiblility AK or JJ/TT if hes pretty loose. I elect to just call, in position, and see the flop and what he does.. </span></span>
<span>*** FLOP *** [9h 8s 4d]<span>- 9 hi flop, good and bad- AK obv misses, and QQ has a green light..</span></span>
<span>BALLEJON: bets 1680
</span><span>DahJinerat: calls 1680</span>- <span>again I just call, hoping to keep pot smaller and slow him down maybe on the turn..</span>
<span>*** TURN *** [9h 8s 4d] [8c]</span>
<span>BALLEJON: bets 3680- <span>when he bet this much, I knew he was obv pretty committed to his hand. I really almost folded, cuz I don't know if he does this w/ QQ, but not knowing the player, and given Ive somewhat underrepped my hand by just calling pre and on the flop, he may put me on TT or even JJ</span></span>
<span>DahJinerat: calls 3680</span>
<span>*** RIVER *** [9h 8s 4d 8c] [3h]</span>
<span>BALLEJON: bets 4700 and is all-in</span>
<span>DahJinerat: calls 3680 and is all-in-<span> when I called the turn I obv was going down with the hand on a blank river if he has AA.. </span></span>
*** SHOW DOWN ***
<span>BALLEJON: shows [Ah As] (two pair, Aces and Eights)</span>
<span>DahJinerat: shows [Kd Kh] (two pair, Kings and Eights)</span>
BALLEJON collected 20400 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 20400 | Rake 0
Board [9h 8s 4d 8c 3h]
Seat 1: BALLEJON (small blind) showed [Ah As] and won (20400) with two pair, Aces and Eights
Seat 2: v24601 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: DahJinerat showed [Kd Kh] and lost with two pair, Kings and Eights
Seat 4: ImaLucSac folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Pokerm�klarn folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: badbeatbroad folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: dapaca folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: apestyles folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Roxiejean (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

1) Was this just a cooler on a 9 hi rainbow board, or a donk move not knowing when to fold an overpair this early in the tourney w/ no read. Ive made this type of laydown before, usually QQ/JJ and obv thats much easier, but is this a situation where CLEARLY he has aces or was there enough of a chance that he had QQ/JJ where playing for stacks here is OK?

2) If its a FOLD, when? should I have re-raised pre and folded to the 4th raise when he shoves (assuming he would have)? Or should I have raised the flop (which commits at least hald my starting stack) and folded to a shove then? OR was it fine to call pre and on flop, but fold on the turn or river to his strong bets?

The whole time the hand played out my gut said he had aces, and the lil voice in the back of my head was saying 'another sick stars setup what can i do' but I couldnt pull the trigger on the fold button- convinced myself he could be overplaying QQ or JJ and really thinking he had the best hand (obv w/ 6600 players the Mil is a donkfest especially early). Any input/advice is appreciated, thanks..

get it in preflop and take your cooler like a man... ul

I think you can reraise pre to 3000 or so and if he moves in, then you can fold. Either way, it's hard to lay that down in this tournament.

I tend to agree w/ you- altho that play has two drawbacks IMO:

1st- w/ so many donks he's liable to shove a few hands I beat (despite the fact that wer'e deep and its the first level) and I lose a lot of value from a premium hand, and

2nd- it gives me a weak image that I can be pushed off hands easily and my raises (esp. UTG) won't get any respect and I'll be in more tricky/marginal situations not knowing where I stand (although getting played back at COULD be a positive when I do have really strong/made hands)

That being said, I hate busting on the 3rd hand when I can definitely make that fold and preserve 70% of my stack and still have a decent chance to chip up.
Thanks for the input.

if you are going to lay this hand down at this stage given information and the board, you will never have a chance in this tourney, very ul...but without info, its just a cooler imo

i'm sendin it in pre-flop

You're not getting away from this hand in a tournamant like this unless you have a really rock solid read which comes from knowing the opponent very well. I think it would of been a mistake to fold this at any time of the hand. I don't mind the way you played this, the call instead of reraise preflop is a valid option I think (as is reraising at times), maybe i raise on the flop or turn, but i'm not thinking fold any time here.

The cold call of the turn imo is an amateur play you have two correct decisions to choose from.
Fold (As the board has paired and he could have easily made his full house) Push all in and put he burden back on him..

So he's got either AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 1010 or 99 (88 but unlikely)

So you are behind AA and 99.
You can beat QQ, JJ and 1010 only.

The bet on the turn he is implying that he has Aces more than any other hand... Correct decision is to fold the turn, given the info.

Not reraising preflop didn't help you.. If you reraise you find out is he has Aces 80% of the time. As if they reraised you once they may reshove.. 4th shove = Aces.

Timbo

Maybe there should be a FORUM called (K-K vs A-A)

These threads are cluttering the boards of bad beat stories like this KK vs AA hand. Ugh.

This thread goes into the "Is there anyway to avoid multiple topic threads?"

ugh , i hate that. ul.. i never fold kings