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LAG play in 1/2 cash table (would you play this hand like this?)

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  1. deadmoney_18 deadmoney_18 is offline

    Chicago, IL
    United States

    Posts: 311
    Joined: Aug 06

    Sep 2nd, 2006 (9/2/2006 12:09am)

    Dealt to deadmoney_18 [4h 5h]
    bigredhoss: folds
    deadmoney_18: raises $6 to $8
    redargoe: raises $16 to $24
    builder3768: folds
    kagedin: folds
    FX699: folds
    deadmoney_18: calls $16
    *** FLOP *** [6s 7h 2h]
    deadmoney_18: checks
    redargoe: bets $32
    deadmoney_18: raises $350.30 to $382.30 and is all-in
    redargoe: calls $341 and is all-in
    *** TURN *** [6s 7h 2h] [3h]
    *** RIVER *** [6s 7h 2h 3h] [5s]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    deadmoney_18: shows [4h 5h] (a flush, Seven high)
    redargoe: shows [Ah Qh] (a flush, Ace high)
    redargoe collected $794 from pot
    deadmoney_18 said, "WOW"
    deadmoney_18 said, "how do you call that"
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot $797 | Rake $3
    Board [6s 7h 2h 3h 5s]
    Seat 1: deadmoney_18 showed [4h 5h] and lost with a flush, Seven high
    Seat 2: redargoe showed [Ah Qh] and won ($794) with a flush, Ace high
    Seat 3: builder3768 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: kagedin (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 5: FX699 (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 6: bigredhoss folded before Flop (didn't bet)Dealt to deadmoney_18 [4h 5h]
    bigredhoss: folds
    deadmoney_18: raises $6 to $8
    redargoe: raises $16 to $24
    builder3768: folds
    kagedin: folds
    FX699: folds
    deadmoney_18: calls $16
    *** FLOP *** [6s 7h 2h]
    deadmoney_18: checks
    redargoe: bets $32
    deadmoney_18: raises $350.30 to $382.30 and is all-in
    redargoe: calls $341 and is all-in
    *** TURN *** [6s 7h 2h] [3h]
    *** RIVER *** [6s 7h 2h 3h] [5s]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    deadmoney_18: shows [4h 5h] (a flush, Seven high)
    redargoe: shows [Ah Qh] (a flush, Ace high)
    redargoe collected $794 from pot
    deadmoney_18 said, "WOW"
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot $797 | Rake $3
    Board [6s 7h 2h 3h 5s]
    Seat 1: deadmoney_18 showed [4h 5h] and lost with a flush, Seven high
    Seat 2: redargoe showed [Ah Qh] and won ($794) with a flush, Ace high
    Seat 3: builder3768 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: kagedin (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 5: FX699 (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 6: bigredhoss folded before Flop (didn't bet)
  2. isuckbadly isuckbadly is offline

    Posts: 901
    Joined: May 06

    Sep 2nd, 2006 (9/2/2006 12:18am) in reply to deadmoney_18

    yes. thats a donk call on his part. thats the best way to play the hand, straight and flush draw
  3. deadmoney_18 deadmoney_18 is offline

    Chicago, IL
    United States

    Posts: 311
    Joined: Aug 06

    Sep 2nd, 2006 (9/2/2006 12:22am) in reply to isuckbadly

    he insta called me too.... i asked him how he did it... he said... "i hate you.."

    I guess i just have that effect on people.
    Thread Starter
  4. MetalGod MetalGod is offline

    Thomaston, CT
    United States

    Posts: 1,978
    Joined: Aug 05

    Sep 2nd, 2006 (9/2/2006 4:33am) in reply to deadmoney_18

    If you've had the LAG image going the entire time, he probably felt like taking a gamble just to try and bust you. This is most certainly against his better judgement if he has any and just plain bad luck for you that he makes this call.
  5. icecoldkiller icecoldkiller is offline

    Brookeville, MD
    United States

    Posts: 260
    Joined: Jun 06

    Sep 2nd, 2006 (9/2/2006 6:26pm) in reply to deadmoney_18

    I have a question for you deadmoney, why did you call the preflop raise? Why did you even bet the cards out? Next, your check raise was huge. Is this your usual style? I run into this a lot, but on lower value tables, so guess it happens even at the higher levels. Do you show your cards sometimes after moves like that? If so, maybe your tactics backfired? Do you usually slow down when you have a hand, and if so then they made a good read on you.

    Bottom line, your action told him you were chasing and he felt his chase was better than yours.
  6. CardSoldier CardSoldier is offline

    Monmouth Junction, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 188
    Joined: May 06

    Sep 3rd, 2006 (9/3/2006 12:20pm) in reply to icecoldkiller

    Deadmoney, in the future if you include the entire hand history (i.e., make sure that we can see what the original starting stacks are) then you will be able to get a better analysis for the hand. I see that your stacks were above the max buyin...I think you both had around 200bbs?
    Before you post: Please post any information about the player/s in the hand so that the reader knows how the play at the table is going, and how your play can/should be adjusted in the particular hand.

    Preflop: If we assume that that the player in the hand is loose and will pay you off if you hit the flop hard (has something like a big pocket pair or AK and cannot fold a pair if the flop comes something like K-5-5,A-5-4, or undercards if he has big pp and flop comes 10-5-4), then a preflop call isn't necessarily a bad move. However, being that you are out of position you should be a little more leary of calling a preflop reraise. If you were in position, I don't mind this preflop call at all because you are both deepstacked and have the potential to win a sizeable pot. That being said, this isn't a call that you should be making 100% of the time, but isn't a bad move depending on the situation (as long as you have position)

    Flop: I think that you play the flop horribly. You could've played it worse, but you simply cannot c/r a $32 bet to $350+. It just doesn't make any sense. You are NOT calling this reraise preflop to try and take it down on the flop the way you did (You are calling to try and hit a big hand and trap him for his entire stack). The only time I see you trying to take it down on this flop is if you had lead out for $35 or so and you get raised to ~ $105-120. Then it would be correct for you to push and try to take it down with 220+ behind you. But there is no sense in moving in for your entire stack. It was an unfortunate situation that he had bigger hearts and is a calling station so you were probably going broke if you hit your flush.
    Note: I am not opposed to getting your money in on the flop against a big PP with your monster draw in a normal circumstance. But being OOP changes your play a lot.

    In the event that the turn doesn't come a heart and he has big hearts (assuming you just call the flop bet or c/r to about $100) You have a much better chance to try and take the pot down being that he only has one more street to try and make his flush. And you would also be winning more money in taking the pot down on the turn instead of just his flop bet.

    If you end up hitting your hand on the turn (in the event he isn't going to holding big hearts most of the time) then you just need to start thinking of ways to try and get all of the money into the pot. Normally, if you play the flop and turn as I said above, and you hit your straight/flush, you are going to take down a big pot.

    Think this analysis covers my thoughts completely but I did some erasing and will double check to make sure. Could you post any thoughts/rebuttles you might have on this hand?
  7. deadmoney_18 deadmoney_18 is offline

    Chicago, IL
    United States

    Posts: 311
    Joined: Aug 06

    Sep 3rd, 2006 (9/3/2006 4:01pm) in reply to deadmoney_18

    I play a very insane loose aggro style. I raise with nearly any suited hands, and every suited connector. I don't mind playing hands like 4h5h out of position because I feel I can outplay anyone at the table especially if their stack is deep. I make the play I did with a wide range of hands... sets, two pair, pair + flush draw, and open ender + flush draw.

    Sorry for not including the stack sizes and positions.
    Thread Starter
  8. CardSoldier CardSoldier is offline

    Monmouth Junction, NJ
    United States

    Posts: 188
    Joined: May 06

    Sep 3rd, 2006 (9/3/2006 10:29pm) in reply to deadmoney_18

    I could understand the play better with something like two pair or a set (might look more like an overpair or a big draw). I just don't like pushing THAT big of a c/r on a draw. Even though your draw was huge and you're about even money against any hand. I like c/c or c/r your opponent about 3x. That way if he calls and you hit your draw you can keep him in the hand and let him hang himself. The only was you are making a substantial amount of money on your vast over check raise is if he calls and you suckout. It's like you moving all in preflop with AK against QQ for 200bbs when there isn't a ton of money in the pot. Even though you have some fold equity, I think it is a losing play in the long run with this hand. Just my two cents.

    I understand playing a laggy style very well as I do the same thing. But I found myself getting into trouble playing out of position and you might be very surprised at how much easier it is to play these hands when you have position. Makes it much easier for you to outplay your opponent and not yourself.
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