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limping utg strong a bad play?

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  1. breniff1223 breniff1223 is offline

    Posts: 110
    Joined: Sep 09

    Apr 9th, 2010 (4/9/2010 11:19pm)

    am i only one who views this strong play or is this an outdated practice
    example:

    Full Tilt Poker Game #19958484793: Daily Double - A (151320012), Table 116 - 150/300 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:12:49 ET - 2010/04/09
    Seat 1: rotkraut (7,690)
    Seat 2: Tylos (27,910)
    Seat 3: MesseJay (4,170)
    Seat 5: txpoker3 (4,335)
    Seat 6: polkachief (4,055)
    Seat 7: Vanwidmerlee (2,115)
    Seat 8: Pick6man (7,357)
    Seat 9: breniff1223 (7,960)
    rotkraut antes 25
    Tylos antes 25
    MesseJay antes 25
    txpoker3 antes 25
    polkachief antes 25
    Vanwidmerlee antes 25
    Pick6man antes 25
    breniff1223 antes 25
    Vanwidmerlee posts the small blind of 150
    Pick6man posts the big blind of 300
    The button is in seat #6
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to breniff1223 [Qh Qd]
    breniff1223 calls 300
    rotkraut folds
    Tylos folds
    MesseJay folds
    txpoker3 folds
    polkachief calls 300
    76gldnchld76 sits down
    76gldnchld76 adds 11,740
    Vanwidmerlee raises to 2,090, and is all in
    Pick6man folds
    breniff1223 raises to 7,935, and is all in
    polkachief folds
    breniff1223 shows [Qh Qd]
    Vanwidmerlee shows [Td Ac]
    Uncalled bet of 5,845 returned to breniff1223
    *** FLOP *** [4c Th As]
    *** TURN *** [4c Th As] [4d]
    *** RIVER *** [4c Th As 4d] [6h]
    breniff1223 shows two pair, Queens and Fours
    Vanwidmerlee shows two pair, Aces and Tens
    Vanwidmerlee wins the pot (4,980) with two pair, Aces and Tens
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 4,980 | Rake 0
    Board: [4c Th As 4d 6h]
    Seat 1: rotkraut folded before the Flop
    Seat 2: Tylos folded before the Flop
    Seat 3: MesseJay folded before the Flop
    Seat 5: txpoker3 folded before the Flop
    Seat 6: polkachief (button) folded before the Flop
    Seat 7: Vanwidmerlee (small blind) showed [Td Ac] and won (4,980) with two pair, Aces and Tens
    Seat 8: Pick6man (big blind) folded before the Flop
    Seat 9: breniff1223 showed [Qh Qd] and lost with two pair, Queens and Fours
  2. NG3434 NG3434 is offline make it happen

    Hamilton
    Canada

    Posts: 849
    Joined: Aug 09

    Apr 10th, 2010 (4/10/2010 2:22am) in reply to breniff1223

    raise strong utg, your only going to end up in the bad beat section when you flat call this early in the tournament... I love QQ vs. A10 you got unlucky but I would still raise it up with queens, jacks, kings, aces, anything where you think getting tricky might be the right play i would raise.. id take the 450 chips with queens vs having to call an all-in

    overall you got unlucky, but i like a raise preflop with queens
     
  3. Poker Orifice Poker Orifice is offline

    Canada

    Posts: 576
    Joined: Jun 08

    Apr 10th, 2010 (4/10/2010 12:38pm) in reply to NG3434

     
    Originally Posted by NG3434 View Post

    raise strong utg, your only going to end up in the bad beat section when you flat call this early in the tournament... I love QQ vs. A10 you got unlucky but I would still raise it up with queens, jacks, kings, aces, anything where you think getting tricky might be the right play i would raise.. id take the 450 chips with queens vs having to call an all-in

    overall you got unlucky, but i like a raise preflop with queens

    150/300 with ~25bb's is early in the tournament??
    You'd prefer to take the 450 rather than calling a 7bb shove from blinds? (I'd rather be getting it in vs. blinds by calling a 7bb shove any day in this spot).

    OP, Personally I don't like the limp in EP w big pr. on ~25bb's but w/o being on the table I can't say whether or not I think it was 'bad' or 'good'.
  4. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

    Posts: 7,980
    Joined: Jun 05

    Apr 10th, 2010 (4/10/2010 2:36pm) in reply to breniff1223

    Purely table and stack dependent. I don't mind it as a way to mix up your play...IF you know someone behind you is going to raise. At a weak-passive table, like you get a lot in the Daily Doubles, you're going to see a 5-way flop out-of-position more often than you'd like. You're just inviting 97off to crack your hand.

    I don't like it with this stack because you shouldn't be limping with speculative hands. Your implied odds aren't right to play something like T8s as an UTG limp, especially if someone raises behind you. And if you wouldn't do it with T8s, you shouldn't do it with QQ. You're just telling everyone you have a monster.

    At the end of the day, though - you got it in as a 70:30 favorite. Tough to argue with that situation.
     
  5. JimmyMac20 JimmyMac20 is offline

    Posts: 174
    Joined: Oct 09

    Apr 10th, 2010 (4/10/2010 2:55pm) in reply to breniff1223

    i wouldn't make it my default play, but it definately has it's merits. I usually raise about 3/4, and limp 1/4 with a big hand there.
  6. prodi84 prodi84 is offline

    Skien
    Norway

    Posts: 115
    Joined: Mar 10

    Apr 11th, 2010 (4/11/2010 3:07am) in reply to breniff1223

    limping with big pocket pairs is hugely overrated. Unless you know someone behind you is gonna raise or you have a desperate stack it is not recommended, you'll just be busted out by J3o
  7. Blastergv Blastergv is offline

    Palm Beach Gardens, FL
    United States

    Posts: 13
    Joined: Mar 08

    Apr 11th, 2010 (4/11/2010 4:48pm) in reply to breniff1223

    it worked out beautiful for you in this case in the beginning. i don't suggest making it your standard play. but you got 1/4 of you stack in a big favorite, and it didnt work out. he probably ships on a raise anyways with 7bbs, same result
     
  8. hushpuckena hushpuckena is offline

    Natchez, MS
    United States

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    Apr 12th, 2010 (4/12/2010 8:00am) in reply to prodi84

     
    Originally Posted by prodi84 View Post

    limping with big pocket pairs is hugely overrated. Unless you know someone behind you is gonna raise or you have a desperate stack it is not recommended, you'll just be busted out by J3o

    On a short stack, why would you ever limp? Even in situations where you have players acting after you who would jam, you need to maximise your chance of winning the pot.
  9. Black Serac Black Serac is offline

    Posts: 15
    Joined: Apr 10

    Apr 12th, 2010 (4/12/2010 10:37am) in reply to hushpuckena

    I will min raise (or 2.5X) UTG or early in these spots once in a while, which looks stronger IMO.

    But this hand is ending the same way no matter what you do PF. He is pushing A 10 no matter what action comes and you are calling w/QQ.
  10. BBird40 BBird40 is offline

    Lagrange, GA
    United States

    Posts: 403
    Joined: Feb 10

    Apr 12th, 2010 (4/12/2010 4:07pm) in reply to Black Serac

    Raise 2.5x and call a shove...that is about all you can do there.
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