Sup guys, haven't posted in a while but I found myself in a tricky spot not knowing what to do. I'm playing some $5/$10nl and $10/$20nl 6max/hu on cake and 2 hours in, this interesting hand came up at my $10/$20nl table which was playing 3 handed for the last 30 minutes. I have no real history with the opponent in this hand. He was not at any of my other tables. He has been playing extremely tight and on the passive side. He doesn't get out of line preflop. I saw him 3bet maybe only 2 or 3 times. One of the times he showed AK and stacked some guy who came to the table for 4 hands who jammed AQ for 90bbs preflop. Other than that I haven't seen him raise very much. When he decided to play a hand he would limp it in always. I have not yet to get into a huge spot with this player. My image is pretty aggro. I have been playing tons of pots but only showed a bluff once. I 4bet from the button with 910ss. Flop came a rainbow J 8 A and someone c/called my shove with AJ and I got owned. I have been winning most pots without going to showdown. Im a solid reg at these stakes but I doubt this opponent knows Im a good competent player. Since he never played with me he prolly thinks im some crazy lagtard that never really has anything. I have been 3betting a ton and every1 knows this.

The effective stacks are me with $3,840 and the villian with $4,100.

3 handed I open for $60 on the button with Qd Qh. SB folds and villian in the bb makes it $200. I think about 4betting to $475-$500 but then elect to just call for several reasons. For one Im in position and by not 4betting QQ I diguise my hand and it also allows me to keep in alot of the weaker hands I beat. I don't think 4betting is bad, especially when the last time I did was 20 mins ago and I showed 910ss. However against this opponent I think if I 4bet, he folds all the hands I dominate and if he jams I pretty much have to call and when I do Im almost never happy with the spot Im in which is im either flipping against AK or im dominated. And 4bet/folding would be horrible.

Flop comes 3h 7s Tc and he quickly bets $300 into $410 almost immediately. I have no idea what to think of this and need some imput/thoughts about how to proceed with this hand. At the time I felt kinda gross and really wasn't happy about the situation. I normally have a plan/idea during the hand on what Im going to do but this spot confused me. Maybe I suck idk, but the gameflow/timing of this hand just felt like he was super strong. He isn't the type of player to go crazy with a bluff. The times he did c-bet Im pretty sure he put in another bet on the turn and fired again on the river. So I think hes betting his hands for value and not just barreling with air on every street. Imo the range of hands that he would 3bet pf is really tight like 88+ AK and maybe a slight chance of AQ but thats really thin for him. I think he does this with premium hands only and because of how tight he is I dont think marginal hands are a possibility. Im not sure if he c-bets hands like 88, 99, AK. AK would be more likely when he bets here because if he gets raised he is pretty much always folding because he is going to think hes beat. But with 88 or 99, he doesn't want to lead out and get blown off his hand if I reraise him. because now, if he gets reraised with those hands, he might still think hes good. In which case those mid pps that missed sets are going to go for a pot control line and I will see him c/call more often. This leaves me with the rest of his range which is TT+. However I honestly don't feel he has TT because of his timing on the flop. He just bet so fast that I think if he made any kind of set he would at least think about his options a little bit. JJ is def included along with AA and KK. So if theres 7 hands i put him on (88+ AK), and I beat 4 of them (88, 99, JJ, AK), but 2/4 of the hands I beat arent very likely (88, 99), whats your play? I really believe that all my options are viable but at the same time none of them I feel great about. Whats your next move? I'll post the rest of the hand results after some discussion.

-Sct

Edit: One factor I forgot to mention may or may not be significant but I think another problem is he is almost never putting me on a big hand like QQ. Not sure if that matters a ton but I guess its possible it could change what he does.

Ok, some admission first: I don't play as high as you, I play micro stakes, but I want to try and work through this.

To me, you have to raise the flop. You have a dry board with a disguised hand and a solid villain. On the flop you still have $3,640 behind with a pot of $710. I would raise to around $900, giving a pot of $1610 with around $2,700 left behind, giving you enough to fold. You have a solid villain who isn't going to 3-bet bluff with air. If he comes launching back at you, you have to seriously consider folding.

If the villain flat-calls your 3-bet, you're in trouble and need to get a free card on the turn. I can't see a solid player flat-calling with anything less than a set, or perhaps JJ. Exercise pot-control from here-on-out.

Hope somebody else gives you some more insightful advice, and from a higher level :)

 

Originally Posted by Duffy08

would rather raise/fold this flop with air than with QQ

he could be hella solid villian and still think he should be jamming over ur flop raise with JJ or something and all of a sudden were folding the best hand turning it into a bluff

This is key. I agree with this logic 100%. This is what makes this a tough spot. I dont think there is an optimal play, as raising and calling is close. I think theres merit for both. I dont think folding is horrible but it isnt the best play. I expect to at least call the flop and re-evaluate on later streets. I might have an easier decision on the turn. Depends what he does. If he checks I pretty much take control of the pot. If he bets again I might look to get the rest in on safe turns.

And I agree with Duffy that I can't reraise QQ on the flop with intentions of folding to a 3bet. If I do that I am just turning a strong hand with showdown value into a bluff. Which is why i rather make a move like that with air instead to polarize my range and balance my bluffing frequency which means AA sometimes and other times complete air.

 

Originally Posted by sct123

And I agree with Duffy that I can't reraise QQ on the flop with intentions of folding to a 3bet. If I do that I am just turning a strong hand with showdown value into a bluff. Which is why i rather make a move like that with air instead to polarize my range and balance my bluffing frequency which means AA sometimes and other times complete air.

I'd flat flop and go from there. I don't have higher stakes experience either but I'd flat flop since it's too dry. I think with the power of position you should be alright in this hand.

Since you put him on JJ+, AK when he leads the flop, then clearly the best play is to call.

However, herein lies the flaw in your long winded post.

You really think he is only 3-betting 88+ AK in a 3 handed game?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I really feel like this is just a two-part bad beat story.

 

Originally Posted by rfohrenbach

Since you put him on JJ+, AK when he leads the flop, then clearly the best play is to call.

However, herein lies the flaw in your long winded post.

You really think he is only 3-betting 88+ AK in a 3 handed game?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I really feel like this is just a two-part bad beat story.

I would normally ever have this mentallity has the value of hands are much more significant in short handed games however this player didn't seem to change his strategy. I am pretty positive he was playing the same way as if it was full ring. He was playing imaginably tight and not opening up his game 3 handed. Within almost an hour at the table, he only 3bet twice I believe. There were a few hands where another player opened std 3x pre and this villian flatted with AQ twice, AJ, 77, and 99
So even thought its 3 handed I really believe that his 3betting range is that tight.

And no its not a badbeat story, I actually won the hand but it was really interesting how the rest of the hand played out.

Ricky go get Nick Sanford on here I need some perfect poker advice. lol

so what did ya end up doin?

The highest 6max game I play is 5/10...so im no cash expert but folding the flop is definitely not an option. I think your flat preflop is optimal, especially 3-handed. Continuing to post-flop if he immediately c-bet 75% of the pot this is completely standard in cash with his entire range which I'm sure you're aware of. Being so deep, I just flat the flop in position and evaluate on the turn. If Villian is medeoker/tight he likely won't barrel again on the turn with air. If he barrels again on the turn then you got a super tough spot, although I think he might even slow down with hands like JJ especially if he isn't a regular to these limits. Like I said, if he barrels again on the turn I think hes likely to be SUPER strong with your assessment of his playing abilities.

Refer to Chapter 7 of Perfect Poker II.