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Live 1/2 nl...bad call by the old man?

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  1. birdiemachine birdiemachine is offline

    Danville, KY
    United States

    Posts: 153
    Joined: Jul 05

    Feb 8th, 2009 (2/8/2009 2:11pm)

    Excerpt for my blog...sorry for the length.

    So I get into my first big confrontation with about $420 in front of me. Most of the table was sitting with less than $200 in front of them except for an older man who had just busted a younger lady with the A high flush to her K high flush. He had a little over $900 from what I could count.

    Two players limped from early position, older man limps and a young kid raised to $12 from the hijack (only had $75 behind) and I make the call with A8 hearts from the button knowing most everyone else will join the pot getting good odds to call. So we go 5-handed to a flop of 8,9,10 with two hearts giving me a huge draw. Everyone checks to me on the button, and I bet $45 expecting to take down the pot...I didnt pay attention to the action behind me, I just watched the original raiser, who eventually folded after a taking a few minutes to make a decision. When I play live, I always cap my cards with a dollar chip to use as a tip if I win the hand, and I push my cards to the dealer with the $1 chip on them as his tip. He looks at me and says, "what's this?"

    Me: "your tip...I won the pot."

    Dealer: "so you are not mucking your cards?"

    Me: "No, didn't I win the pot?"

    Dealer: "No, this gentleman raised to $145, which makes it $100 for you to stay,"

    Me: "OK, hang on second, I am not out!"

    Hear is where the fireworks start. The older gentleman with the big stack had made it $145 and was now majorly PO'd that the dealer had not mucked my cards. He makes about a 2 minute scene with the dealer and then wants the floor to come over and make an official decision. With him making this big of a scene, there is no way he has QJ for the nut straight. I immediately decide he has 10,9 for top two pair. Its possible he has 10,8 or maybe 6,7 for the ignorant end of a straight, but I commit myself to think he specifically has 10,9.

    The floor comes over, listening to the dealer explanation and both of our explanations, eventually ruling that my hand is still live. Within 10 seconds of his decision, I shipped all my chips to the middle for $361...forcing the older gentleman to call another another $261. If he has 10,9...I am about a 51/49 underdog...which means if players only occasionally make a fold here...this a very profitable play.

    For me, him to make a call against my raise is extremely unprofitable as the only hand he is ahead of is my hand at 51/49... I could easily have a set or a straight and he would be a major underdog to either of those situations...about 82/17 underdog to that range of hands. He is actually dead if I have 10,10.

    While trying to decide whether to make his call, he pointed fingers and yells at the dealer and floorman for not making the proper decision...making me more certain he has 10,9 and It seemed like he was going to fold. He started stacking chips and asked for the 2-3 time for the total to call. Politely the dealer said $261.

    He made the call after about 10 minutes of explaining, arguing, pointing, and accusing the staff of not taking care of good customers...lol. He flipped over 10,9 spades and the dealer rolled the Q of hearts on the turn...I tabled my A8 hearts as the river bricked and the old man says..."You did all that with a pair of 8's?"

    Me: "Yeah...thats all I had...Nice call!"
  2. phish42O phish42O is offline

    Houston, TX
    United States

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    Feb 8th, 2009 (2/8/2009 2:31pm) in reply to birdiemachine

    .
  3. Zota Zota is offline

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    Feb 8th, 2009 (2/8/2009 4:13pm) in reply to phish42O

    You could have 89 or 10 8, 10 9 yourself, plus any pair flush draw combo, plus AJ hearts type hands or even a J 10 going nutso. No way he can fold top 2 on such a drawy board.
  4. elusively elusively is online now

    MD
    United States

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    Feb 8th, 2009 (2/8/2009 4:46pm) in reply to Zota

    not a bad call by him.. standard
  5. ImSoMucked ImSoMucked is offline

    MD
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    Feb 8th, 2009 (2/8/2009 5:03pm) in reply to birdiemachine

    he only needs to be a 30% fav for a profitable call
  6. Hitman Hitman is offline

    Joliet, IL
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    Feb 8th, 2009 (2/8/2009 5:19pm) in reply to ImSoMucked

    Call is super standard.

    What I don't like is his check on the flop, I guess he's just "checking to the raiser", but that's just so bad here.
  7. flmodesq21 flmodesq21 is offline

    Chugiak, AK
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    Feb 8th, 2009 (2/8/2009 6:08pm) in reply to birdiemachine

    If you put him on exactly 910, you played it bad. You should've just called the $100 and tank-shipped any turn except a 9 or 10 obviously...He folds the best hand when a 6, 7, J or Q comes...and he probably folds on blank turn cards as well. Without being results oriented, this might be the best play.
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  8. mrniphty mrniphty is offline

    Tallahassee, FL
    United States

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    Feb 8th, 2009 (2/8/2009 6:35pm) in reply to birdiemachine

    so you tip the dealer a buck on a 900 dollar pot after they do you the favor and dont kill your hand...sweet!!!
     
  9. birdiemachine birdiemachine is offline

    Danville, KY
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    Feb 8th, 2009 (2/8/2009 6:36pm) in reply to flmodesq21

     
    Originally Posted by flmodesq21 View Post

    If you put him on exactly 910, you played it bad. You should've just called the $100 and tank-shiped any turn except a 9 or 10 obviously...He folds the best hand when a 6, 7, J or Q comes...and he probably folds on blank turn cards as well. Without being results oriented, this might be the best play.

    I don't see how this line works as well, but thats why we all play poker. Thanks for the input!
    Thread Starter
  10. birdiemachine birdiemachine is offline

    Danville, KY
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    Feb 8th, 2009 (2/8/2009 6:38pm) in reply to mrniphty

     
    Originally Posted by mrniphty View Post


    so you tip the dealer a buck on a 900 dollar pot after they do you the favor and dont kill your hand...sweet!!!

    The dealer received 2 reds and two more when he left the table. He handled the situation exactly how it should have been.
    Thread Starter
  11. mrniphty mrniphty is offline

    Tallahassee, FL
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    Feb 8th, 2009 (2/8/2009 6:40pm) in reply to birdiemachine

    :) glad to hear...there is nothing more frustrating than getting stiffed or a buck on a monster pot.
     
  12. flmodesq21 flmodesq21 is offline

    Chugiak, AK
    United States

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    Feb 8th, 2009 (2/8/2009 6:41pm) in reply to birdiemachine

     
    Originally Posted by birdiemachine View Post

     
    Originally Posted by flmodesq21 View Post

    If you put him on exactly 910, you played it bad. You should've just called the $100 and tank-shiped any turn except a 9 or 10 obviously...He folds the best hand when a 6, 7, J or Q comes...and he probably folds on blank turn cards as well. Without being results oriented, this might be the best play.

    I don't see how this line works as well, but thats why we all play poker. Thanks for the input!

    I see it as such, if you put him on 9 10/8 10/8 9 and him having a bunch of chips and being an old man, he's probably never folding. He's tanking to save face in case you do have him beat. By shoving any turn ('cept 9 or 10) you create more fold equity because by just calling your hand looks like a set/straight etc.

    I don't remember but throw all of what I just said out of the window if you're in position vs old man. If you're out of position, you can shove first on the turn...If you're in position then shoving the flop is superior.

    I suck at reading...
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