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Live 1/2 NL Question

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  1. 13Jayhawk13 13Jayhawk13 is offline

    Olathe, KS
    United States

    Posts: 761
    Joined: Feb 08

    Jul 3rd, 2011 (7/3/2011 2:07am)

    Relevant Players:
    UTG = Loose/Passive playing virtually ATC from any position for a limp and calls nearly all raises. Hot streak = ~ $750
    UTG+1 = Old guy. He hasn't been at the table that long, but I'm assuming he's fairly tight. ~$215
    Me in BB = I'm playing TAG, but I don't expect anyone to really notice at this point. ~$250
    UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, EMP limps, cutoff limps, Button limps, and I am in BB with 88.

    Online, I would normally just check and raise about 1/3, but live, I'm raising 2/3 and checking 1/3 (I don't know if that adjustment makes sense, but I've noticed I'm playing a bit differently since starting playing live).

    I check and flop comes: Jc5d8d. Pot = 13.

    I lead for $15, utg calls, utg+1 calls and everyone else folds.

    Turn comes 6s.

    I bet $30, utg calls and utg+1 (old guy) shoves for $168 more.

    I really have no idea what to do here, but I'm thinking that I can't really put the old man on a winning hand. I think he could limp any pair pre and big cards. Since he only called the flop, I don't think he ever has JJJ in that spot, so the only two hands that he could have is 79 or 47 to win.

    I have found that generally, live players rarely put in 100bbs without the nuts or close to it, but I could see the old man thinking that 666 was the nuts.

    wwyd?
  2. Demitrius100 Demitrius100 is online now

    Posts: 1,040
    Joined: Jul 06

    Jul 3rd, 2011 (7/3/2011 2:53am) in reply to 13Jayhawk13

    this is the easiest call ever. i dont care what the results are. please tell me you did not fold this. he is shoving 2 pairs and even fd's sometimes.
     
  3. FiGMan FiGMan is offline

    Vineyard Haven, MA
    United States

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    Jul 3rd, 2011 (7/3/2011 2:56am) in reply to Demitrius100

    Getting it all in here and moving on to the next hand. If he has 79 then so be it and we can still pair the board. Yes there is always the strange possibility he overlimps with JJ but its rare. I've seen tight old people who never raise anything do shit like that and hit sets and there is no way you put them on that hand but oh well if thats the case here. I also dont know how the old man could call the over pot size flop bet with 66 either esp if you see him as "tight". 55, AJ (and finally decided to get it in), 2 big diamonds (67s) all just as likely as him calling and hitting the gut shot straight there. Live players who you even percieve as "tight" will always at some point just boggle your mind at how bad or just odd they play.
    Edited By: FiGMan Jul 3rd, 2011 at 03:02 AM
  4. OneM24 OneM24 is online now beer pong champion

    Richmond, VA
    United States

    Posts: 7,772
    Joined: Dec 05

    Jul 3rd, 2011 (7/3/2011 3:41am) in reply to FiGMan

    I call this every time. If he has the nuts, so be it.

    I am not sure I agree with your assumption that live players don't get it in without the nuts very often, as that read is going to be table/player dependent.

    Demitrius 100,

    I can see him shoving 2 pair here, but which 2 pair do you think he made with that 6...or are you saying he called behind on the flop with J5, 58, or J8? Do you think 56, 68, or J6 calls the flop bet after someone called ahead of him?
    While I said the assumption that live players don't get it in without the nuts isn't one that I readily make on every occasion, I agree with OP in that older people tend to have a MUCH tighter shove range in spots like this. To be honest, most of the older guys I've played with would be content to call off with 2 pair, as opposed to shoving it in there. I also seriously doubt a draw shoves this turn, but doesn't shove that flop.
  5. 13Jayhawk13 13Jayhawk13 is offline

    Olathe, KS
    United States

    Posts: 761
    Joined: Feb 08

    Jul 3rd, 2011 (7/3/2011 3:42am) in reply to FiGMan

    Thanks, just wanted to make sure I wasn't losing it, I go from playing 5k hands a week to averaging 10. I was being results oriented, because I call and utg calls and they both chop it up holding 47.

    It just kinda made me sick because I am not rolled for 1/2, but its the lowest game in town. I am just really disappointed, because the way I play, 10 buyins is never enough and I'll probably go broke before internet poker comes back. Sigh . . . I really miss pstars.
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  6. J9ofSpades J9ofSpades is offline

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    Jul 3rd, 2011 (7/3/2011 7:30pm) in reply to 13Jayhawk13

    You absolutely must ship behind. He could very well have 55 or 66 here. If he's like 85% of older players at 1/2 games, they play very few hands and will only come in with premium and wired cards. If he has JJ, it's an unlucky day and you move on.

    I would have a very hard time putting him on 74 or 97, especially from ugt+1. Even if he does, you can still dog him on the river.

    You have to ship behind, because you also have the utg player to worry about as well.

    If the result of the hand really was both of them having 74, then stick around that table for a bit longer. If they're coming in with garbage like that from utg and utg+1, they're your atms for the night. Just an unlucky turn card.
    Edited By: J9ofSpades Jul 3rd, 2011 at 07:32 PM
  7. kcd0g kcd0g is offline

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    Jul 3rd, 2011 (7/3/2011 11:10pm) in reply to J9ofSpades

    Harrah's or Ameristar? I play 1/2 2 or 3 times a week at Harrah's in NKC and you get a decent amount of 3/6 Limit players bouncing over to the NL tables because of the 60/200 BI, so the horror show you described is not particularly uncommon. Not much else you could do there.
  8. 13Jayhawk13 13Jayhawk13 is offline

    Olathe, KS
    United States

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    Jul 5th, 2011 (7/5/2011 6:15pm) in reply to kcd0g

    It was Harrah's.

    J9, I completely agree that sticking around is the right thing to do, but I have always been very strickt with my BR management, but I've been forced to play above my roll since Black Friday. I was playing .25/.50 online with a roll of $1.8k. I now have a BR of ~$2k and I had already busted my first buyin on a ridiculous suck out vs. utg before. I was still playing good and I don't generally tilt, but I knew I would not be comfortable shipping another buyin into a pot, so I knew I had to leave.

    It really sucks that I can't afford to even play in these incredibly soft games, but I understand variance very well and recognize that 10 buyins is not nearly enough (I normally ran with 35 buyins).
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