he mucked.

your pot.

no ethical dillema. i'd give the guy a dollar. i'd give the dealer 2 dollars for doing his job correctly

^^

Take the pot, his hand is dead.

floors are supposed to make a decision in "the best interest of the game". That being said, if the card was 100% retrievable, then I would have the player turn his hand over and be live. No the dealer cannot do it for him and yes there should be some reprocussions for his "slamming the cards". But I think it should be live. (only if the dealer were certain of the card.)

This could probably go either way. If a player throws his cards face down toward the muck and one inadvertantly is exposed it could easily be ruled a mucked hand. Doesn't really matter if one was exposed. But if he was throwing them down and had actually meant for them to be face up and the face down card is easily identified. Then the hand could be live.
From your descrition I lean toward the hand being mucked . The dealer probably should have questioned him about what he was doing and made things clear before finishing the hand.

 

Originally Posted by juanyorba

Live 1-3 NL Cash Game, $200 max buy

Hero in middle position, AQ, raises to $15, gets 4-5 callers.

Flop AAK rainbow, everyone checks to Hero, bets 40. Folds around to UTG who calls.

Turn 6, putting a flush draw on board. UTG has roughly $120, hero covers. UTG checks to Hero. Hero bets $100. UTG tanks for maybe 1 minute, moves all in for the extra $20.

Hero calls and turns over his cards immediately and UTG says "I was afraid of that" and slams down his cards in disgust as he says "pair the board". His 8d is exposed but his other card remains face down, hits the board cards and touches the burn cards. River card 8h. Dealer has moved his 8d and, what I presume is although I am not 100% sure, the unexposed card away from burn card pile. UTG points to the board and wants the dealer to expose his hand for him (which I am 100% sure was A8). Dealer says no, you have to table your own hand. Floor is called.

You are the floor, what is your ruling?

If the floor rules in your favor and declares his hand dead, do you have any ethical dilemma about winning the hand? Should you be willing to give the guy back some money?

Explain...

Was he slamming them down in front of him or towards the dealer?

If it's exposed then they can just use CCTV to make it official...

I would make sure that the floor clearly explains his decision either way and make sure that every similar circumstance going forward that they rule the same way. I just want the floor to be consistent.

That ruling will change from casino to casino and homegame to homegame. Most places I've been award the pot to the last live hand, but Borgata requires someone to show to win the pot. In tourneys, someone always has to show @ showdown.

Yea you'll get a warning then they may ask you to leave again. Having a strict "no mucking a showdown without having seen a better hand" policy should prevent any problems in this department. I mucked a straight flush one time @ Showboat and I don't play that shit anymore lol.

check the pocket cam ldo

Nobody can make a blanket statement in this hand that it goes this way or that way.

What are the HOUSE RULES? Rules are different in every room to some extent.

That being said, imo:

1. If the dealer correctly said he had to show his own and was/is allowed to protect the muck and the players hand which was slammed down. Fine.

2. If the floor ruled dead hand, and the player showed me A8 for the nuts (or whatever better hand), I will look at the player and decide based on his character. If he is an unknowing clown, I'll more than likely give him a substantial return, while making it still painful. Mayb 50% of his investment into the pot back. b.) If he is an asshat, tiltmonkey or shit disturber in the room, he gets nothin.

3. If the floor rules his hand is live, I have absolutely zero problem with it and/or the results.

**not bad for my 1st post on p5 huh?

unless the casino has strange rules, if the dealer can retrieve the card, he should

he also should also not deal the river card until he either retrieves said card or declares the hand dead...the way he did it is opening up a HUGE can of worms

I deal in a card room on a regular basis. In my opinion, seeing as there was an All-in and a call before the river, both hands should be turned over BEFORE the river card is dealt. If it were me dealing and this happened, I would take his card out of the muck pile, but only if it can be identified 100%. I would have the player tell me what the card was, and then look at the card he says is supposed to be his, if it is the card he said it was then his hand is still live.

"Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved and ruled live at management’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. An extra effort should be made to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of incorrect information given to the player." - Taken from Robert's Rules of Poker. (http://www.texasholdem-poker.com/rob...ker/dead-hands)

 

Originally Posted by allingamer

I deal in a card room on a regular basis. In my opinion, seeing as there was an All-in and a call before the river, both hands should be turned over BEFORE the river card is dealt. If it were me dealing and this happened, I would take his card out of the muck pile, but only if it can be identified 100%. I would have the player tell me what the card was, and then look at the card he says is supposed to be his, if it is the card he said it was then his hand is still live.

"Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved and ruled live at management’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. An extra effort should be made to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of incorrect information given to the player." - Taken from Robert's Rules of Poker. (http://www.texasholdem-poker.com/rob...ker/dead-hands)

It was a cash game tho. I've never been forced to show my hand before showdown in a cash game, and only forced to do so if I were the winner.

So why would you force them turned up - it's cash, not tourney...and not showing is standard for cash

 

Originally Posted by Drewdaddy19

I think this is a poor rule as it is the player's responsibility to protect his whole cards at all times and if he in fact threw one of his cards in the muck it should be dead and the pot should be awarded to you. Thats just my opinion and my logic could be flawed.

this imo

EthicAl delima huh? Hell no ship that pot. No never ever giving that guy a dollar