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Live Tournament Ruling Question

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  1. LittleWolf LittleWolf is offline

    Lansdale, PA
    United States

    Posts: 181
    Joined: Sep 07

    Aug 23rd, 2009 (8/23/2009 11:40pm)

    I was down in Atlantic City this past weekend playing a $58+12 turbo bounty tournament at Harrah's. We were in the third level when the following took place...

    On a board of xKJQx, the player to my immediate right (older guy) pushed all in, and I picked up a feeling he didn't have anything and I called, showing AQh. He thought about the board, looked at his cards, including flashing them completely face up, before turning them face down and throwing them into the table, over the line. The dealer, at this point, proceeds to start pushing me the pot and I start sweeping it towards my stack.

    It's at this point that the other player goes, "Wait a minute, I had the best hand," and starts to reach for the cards he threw in. Before the dealer could even speak up, the new dealer coming in chimes in, "His cards never hit the muck, they're still live!" I start to say the pot was pushed to me and it's over, but she's going on about his cards not being dead. She gets the TD to come over, and he rules with her, my arguments about the pot being shipped and hand dead falling on deaf ears. He flips up AK and I have to ship him my chips, effectively crippling me, and I was gone within the next 5 minutes.

    I went up to the TD afterward and asked him at what point is the hand over, cause my understanding was the pot being shipped was the end of it, no questions. He had to have me go to the floor manager cause HE DIDN'T KNOW. Talking to the manager, I conceded that yes, the hand is live until it hits the muck, but the hand should have been over once the pot was shipped, and he came back with, "The dealer messed up by not killing the opponents mucked hand before awarding the pot." Gee, thanks. Lot of good that does me now from the rail.

    tl;dr version: At what point is the hand over?
  2. Gags30 Gags30 is offline

    Posts: 6,700
    Joined: Aug 07

    Aug 24th, 2009 (8/24/2009 12:20am) in reply to LittleWolf

    his hand is 100% still live. in a tournament, when both players are all in on the turn, both players hands are to be turned up. he already showed his cards, therefore making his hand live, it cn'at be killed after this point. it was dumb for the dealer to start pushing you the pot without dealing the river, and especially considering that the old guy turned his hand face down with an all in and still a street to come

    moral of the story: don't hero call old guys...they always have it, even if they don't know it
    170 2 

    Gags30 is an instructor at PocketFives Training . To get more of his advice and to watch his training videos, click here.

  3. blacklude blacklude is offline

    Gainesville, VA
    United States

    Posts: 49
    Joined: May 07

    Aug 24th, 2009 (8/24/2009 12:29am) in reply to Gags30

     
    Originally Posted by Gags30 View Post

    his hand is 100% still live. in a tournament, when both players are all in on the turn, both players hands are to be turned up. he already showed his cards, therefore making his hand live, it cn'at be killed after this point. it was dumb for the dealer to start pushing you the pot without dealing the river, and especially considering that the old guy turned his hand face down with an all in and still a street to come

    moral of the story: don't hero call old guys...they always have it, even if they don't know it

    You may want to reread OP, looks like the play was made on the river not turn
  4. LittleWolf LittleWolf is offline

    Lansdale, PA
    United States

    Posts: 181
    Joined: Sep 07

    Aug 24th, 2009 (8/24/2009 12:30am) in reply to Gags30

    Did you read the post? xKJQx...we're at the showdown
    Thread Starter
  5. jinglenutz jinglenutz is offline

    Fort Myers, FL
    United States

    Posts: 198
    Joined: Feb 09

    Aug 24th, 2009 (8/24/2009 4:21am) in reply to LittleWolf

    u should have just mucked his hand yourself and take the 10 min penalty
     
  6. Laois Hammer Laois Hammer is offline

    Port Laoise
    Ireland

    Posts: 536
    Joined: May 08

    Aug 24th, 2009 (8/24/2009 6:37am) in reply to jinglenutz

    best hand won
     
  7. goofy2485 goofy2485 is offline This thread sucks.

    Tucson, AZ
    United States

    Posts: 9,181
    Joined: Mar 07

    Aug 24th, 2009 (8/24/2009 6:44am) in reply to Laois Hammer

    Why do players insist they know more than the people running the casino?

    It's over, you lost, get over it.

    Correct ruling as well.
  8. Dud3rin0 Dud3rin0 is offline

    New York, NY
    United States

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    Joined: Dec 07

    Aug 24th, 2009 (8/24/2009 7:36am) in reply to LittleWolf

    fold pre
  9. zspokerpink zspokerpink is offline

    Sherwood Park
    Canada

    Posts: 780
    Joined: Jul 07

    Aug 24th, 2009 (8/24/2009 7:56am) in reply to Dud3rin0

    This is a decision that can go BOTH ways depending on the casino rules.

    In most casinos, the standard ruling is if the cards havent hit the muck, his hand is still live and can be shown as the winner.

    In this case, it really is a dealer error. When I deal, and someone chucks their cards in, i muck them IMMEDIATELY to avoid this very situation.

    Cliffnotes: Tough luck, fair ruling.
  10. LittleWolf LittleWolf is offline

    Lansdale, PA
    United States

    Posts: 181
    Joined: Sep 07

    Aug 24th, 2009 (8/24/2009 8:33am) in reply to LittleWolf

    Follow up question: The pot had been pushed to me. What happens if I had started putting those chips into my stack immediately? They can't pause the entire tournament while they review security footage.
    Thread Starter
  11. OnUrBikeSon OnUrBikeSon is offline Scammer

    London
    Canada

    Posts: 100
    Joined: Nov 08

    Aug 24th, 2009 (8/24/2009 9:11am) in reply to LittleWolf

    so if you had of won this tourni would you have felt you deserved it, even though it would have meant that the reason you were still in after the third level would have been bc you won this crucial hand on a technicality?
    if this is how you view a winning hand then you dont deserve to win anyway..
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