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LO8b the "right" way to play a hand? Big draws vs. made hands...A Discussion

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  1. xcalibur1120 xcalibur1120 is offline

    Helena, AL
    United States

    Posts: 313
    Joined: Dec 05

    Nov 7th, 2006 (11/7/2006 11:54am)

    I would like some help as well as discuss something I've been thinking about for a while. Should you be hammering big draws in LO8b? Below is a hand that I think illustrates what I am talking about. Now granted, this is not a full wrap to a straight flush or anything, but I think is a monster hand. PLease correct me if I am wrong.
    Perhaps a bad beat but really want feeback. THe real question I am asking is: Is it right to hammer the best draw (and probably the fav to win the hand) or wait for the made hand and hammer it then potential missing out on extra bets?

    My read here was that "MJW" had a "made" hand on the flop either the straight or 3 of a kind. Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

    Full Tilt Poker Game #1089192532: Table Stateline (6 max) - $1/$2 - Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 1:54:43 ET - 2006/10/11
    Seat 1: xcalibur1120 ($20)
    Seat 2: mjw75 ($42)
    Seat 3: gizwo ($59.75)
    Seat 4: wockawoka ($22.50)
    Seat 5: notontilt09 ($26.50)
    Seat 6: pokerschmo ($49)
    notontilt09 posts the small blind of $0.50
    pokerschmo posts the big blind of $1
    The button is in seat #4
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to xcalibur1120 [Qh Ad 3c Qd]
    xcalibur1120 raises to $2
    mjw75 calls $2
    gizwo folds
    wockawoka calls $2
    notontilt09 folds
    pokerschmo calls $1
    *** FLOP *** [7d Td 8c]
    pokerschmo checks
    xcalibur1120 bets $1
    mjw75 raises to $2
    wockawoka folds
    pokerschmo calls $2
    xcalibur1120 raises to $3
    mjw75 raises to $4
    pokerschmo calls $2
    xcalibur1120 calls $1
    *** TURN *** [7d Td 8c] [Qs]
    pokerschmo checks
    xcalibur1120 bets $2
    mjw75 raises to $4
    pokerschmo calls $4
    xcalibur1120 raises to $6
    mjw75 raises to $8
    pokerschmo calls $4
    xcalibur1120: this might be sicker
    xcalibur1120 calls $2
    *** RIVER *** [7d Td 8c Qs] [Kc]
    pokerschmo checks
    xcalibur1120 checks
    mjw75 checks
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    mjw75 shows [7s Jc 9c 8h] (a straight, King high)
    pokerschmo mucks
    xcalibur1120 shows [Qh Ad 3c Qd] (three of a kind, Queens)
    mjw75 wins the pot ($43.50) with a straight, King high
    No low hand qualified
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot $44.50 | Rake $1
    Board: [7d Td 8c Qs Kc]
    Seat 1: xcalibur1120 showed [Qh Ad 3c Qd] and lost with HI: three of a kind, Queens
    Seat 2: mjw75 showed [7s Jc 9c 8h] and won ($43.50) with HI: a straight, King high
    Seat 3: gizwo didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 4: wockawoka (button) folded on the Flop
    Seat 5: notontilt09 (small blind) folded before the Flop
    Seat 6: pokerschmo (big blind) mucked [2h 6s Kd Ac] - HI: a pair of Kings
  2. craftman craftman is offline

    Boulder, CO
    United States

    Posts: 632
    Joined: Jun 05

    Nov 7th, 2006 (11/7/2006 12:18pm) in reply to xcalibur1120

    There was no bad beat here.

    As it turned out you did have a lot of outs on the river, but this hand should have never escalated to this level. After the 4 bet on the flop, it is pretty obvious the guy has the made straight and is trying to push out any low/flush draws. You hit a Q on the turn, but it would be best to just check to mjw75 and call his bet (maybe bet once and then call his raise, but don't reraise). You also seem to forget that pokerschmo is still in the hand, and probably has A2, so your low draw is effectively busted.

    To answer the question you pose at the beginning, in this situation (a 4-bet, with 3 players in the pot) you need to slow it down on the turn without a made hand. You're not even in position with respect to the aggressor, so your play needs to be more cautious regardless. Wait to hit your money card on the river, if you miss, check/call a bet with your set of Q's, and be happy that you saved yourself $8/$10 on the hand.
  3. gobboboy gobboboy is offline

    Mahomet, IL
    United States

    Posts: 91
    Joined: Dec 05

    Nov 7th, 2006 (11/7/2006 12:18pm) in reply to xcalibur1120

    I like your flop 3bet, but I don't like the turn 3bet. The guy who 4bet the flop simply has to have a straight here and he's not folding it and your equity in the pot isn't high enough to justify pumping it since the guy who's just calling in the middle HAS to have the nut low draw. After the flop action, even though you have top set the guy raising simply has to have the nuts, so I would just check/call the turn and see a river.
     
  4. grapsfan grapsfan is offline Head Curmudgeon

    Rosemount, MN
    United States

    Posts: 7,980
    Joined: Jun 05

    Nov 7th, 2006 (11/7/2006 12:46pm) in reply to xcalibur1120

    There's absolutely no reason to go sticking in the extra bets on the flop and the turn. You may end up with the best hand in either direction...but the bottom line here is that unless you luck into the 2 of diamonds, half the money you're putting into the pot is going to go to someone else.

    I like betting draws very heavily if you're drawing to the scoop or the 3/4 (if you had a 2 instead of a 3, for example). In this case, you're not.
     
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