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Low/Mid Stake Cash Grinders - What Would You Do?

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  1. l[dip]l l[dip]l is offline

    Amersfoort
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    Mar 31st, 2007 (3/31/2007 3:25pm)

    <SPAN>I am developing my cash game at the moment, and am finding AK and AQ very difficult hands to play. </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>I feel this is because I put far too much value into them. I first learned poker in a tournament structure and as everyone knows AK becomes huge when the blinds increase as you are 50/50 or better with most hands that call you, however in a cash game scenario I know I don’t have to accumulate chips and you can wait until you find a hand that gives you a better edge than 50/50. </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>I am very confused as how to play them, and I find I am running into the greatest amount of trouble when I’m playing them out of position. The following are three several scenarios where I am having problems. </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>In each of the following hands we are playing against a semi-competent opponent (however he is not a tight aggressive player – just not a retard). We are playing $0.10/$0.25 NLHE and both have stacks of exactly 100bbs. We are playing at 6 man tables. </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>I am in the SB with AKs it is folded to the cut off who raises the pot. The button folds. I bet the pot. The BB folds. The CO calls. </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>Flop: 3s 9h Qd</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>The natural play is to bet a decent amount (3/4 of pot), but I find this often gets called by the CO and then I think I have to check fold the turn. </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>How do you play that hand?</SPAN>

    <SPAN>(Preflop and on the flop)
    </SPAN>

    <SPAN>(Perhaps I am playing this hand too agressivly preflop?) </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>I am UTG with AKo and raise to $1 (4xBB). It is folded to the button, who raises the pot on top. The SB and BB fold. </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>What is your play?</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>I am UTG+1 with AKo. UTG folds.I raise to $1 (4xBB). Folded to the Button who calls. SB and BB fold. </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>Flop 10d 9d 2s </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>What is your play?</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>If any one has any tips of how to play AK in any other situation in either a cash game or tournament I would like to hear your views. For example how do you play AK early in a SNG vs late in a SNG. </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>Ty. </SPAN>
  2. T-Rev T-Rev is offline

    East Saint Louis, IL
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    Mar 31st, 2007 (3/31/2007 3:49pm) in reply to l[dip]l

    In cash games I am basically looking to hit the flop or pick it up with a C-bet when my hand misses as it often does. I believe the key to playing this hand in a cash game is to treat it as you would similar high suited connectors whether or not your AK is suited. I try my best not to get attached to it. I think many of us learned to play it as is on TV tournaments in the late stages when an A is so powerful especially a big one. I generally try to vary whether I play it fast or passively. I tend to play AQ much more passively than AK. Hope this helps. If you have more specific situations let me know.
  3. R_U_Nuts R_U_Nuts is offline

    South Bend, IN
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    Mar 31st, 2007 (3/31/2007 4:40pm) in reply to l[dip]l

    In cash games out of position like you describe I play it two different ways. 1st I will just smooth call the raise and that makes it a whole lot easier to get away from if you miss the flop. 2nd i will re-raise a good amount in my 1/2 nl live game the"serious" raise is to 15$ if I am faceing this raise and hold AK suited i will usually make it 45 to go. Depending on the table that usually takes it down. I only make that play about 10% of the time when im out of position the other 90% once again depending on the players its just a smooth call. As for how to play in a tourney I'll never figure that one out.
  4. l[dip]l l[dip]l is offline

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    Mar 31st, 2007 (3/31/2007 7:36pm) in reply to l[dip]l

    Could I have some more responces, I NEED HELP!
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  5. delete21 delete21 is offline

    Westwood, NJ
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    Mar 31st, 2007 (3/31/2007 7:58pm) in reply to l[dip]l

    early, play it quiet and play it further only if you nail that floppy. be able to get rid of it, nothing special in early blinds. late with only a few players left, play that monster hardddd

    EDIT: i like to think of it as a transformer like that old cartoon where the heroes change form. it changes completely as the tourney evolves (about that ridiculous analogy-i'm getting drunk sorry but ya know what i mean)
  6. SICKTIGHT311 SICKTIGHT311 is offline

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    Mar 31st, 2007 (3/31/2007 8:43pm) in reply to delete21

    He is talking about how to play it in cash games dparker. Read his whole post. That being said, Doyle says he loves AK because it is a hand that is very easy to get away from if you air-ball the flop, unlike KK or AA. Play it as you would play J-10 suited. It is a drawing hand, albeit, the best drawing hand. I like to limp a lot with it or just flat-call a raise. I rarely in a cash game re-raise with it. See flops as cheap as possible. That being said, if I am in late postition in an un-opened pot, I will raise. But if there are limper in front or a raiser in front, just call and take a flop.
  7. delete21 delete21 is offline

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    Mar 31st, 2007 (3/31/2007 8:58pm) in reply to SICKTIGHT311

    ah my mistake. once again i cannot get myself to read very long posts
  8. l[dip]l l[dip]l is offline

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    Mar 31st, 2007 (3/31/2007 9:37pm) in reply to SICKTIGHT311

    you talk about flat calling a raise or limping after someone has limped. In my oppinion this is not good poker, you have a good hand in position, so why not raise?
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  9. delete21 delete21 is offline

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    Mar 31st, 2007 (3/31/2007 11:01pm) in reply to l[dip]l

    dip i agree, you do need to take control of the pot with AK. if the flop misses, a nice cbet will usually take it down. if not, THAT is where i mean be prepared to let it go. don't get too attached is all
  10. l[dip]l l[dip]l is offline

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    Apr 1st, 2007 (4/1/2007 7:56am) in reply to R_U_Nuts

    In you $1/$2 live games, what do you do if your repop is called and the flop comes rags?
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  11. sleepi sleepi is offline

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    Apr 1st, 2007 (4/1/2007 11:32am) in reply to l[dip]l

    if you're OOP against just one player i just like to smooth call preflop cause it's a easy fold if you miss. if there's more callers i repop to isolate and c-bet. and i always reraise in position.
  12. GoldenDomer9 GoldenDomer9 is offline

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    Apr 1st, 2007 (4/1/2007 11:33am) in reply to delete21

    dip-

    I play the same level and I have essentially stopped re-raising AK pre flop. It may sound passive, but I'd prefer to see a flop and proceed from there. What I found was that you face such a wide range of 3-bets that you find yourself racing for half a buy in or more. As you mention, there's no need for this in a ring game. Inevitably, the initial raiser is probably sitting between his $10 and $15, and re-pops you all in after you re-raise. I believe in the long run that the crazies that will do this with AQ, AJ and sometimes even worse - and PP's from QQ down to even the low ones - makes it a must call with the AK. But then, as I mentioned, you're flipping coins for a fair amount of a buy in, or maybe even a full one. So, that being said, I rarely re-raise AK pre flop to avoid this scenario.

    Secondly, if there are limpers in the pot and I'm holding AK, I do not limp behind like was mentioned by a previous poster. I raise it up generally an extra 1x or so per each limper and proceed from there.

    Lastly, while it is a necessary part of poker, there is no rule that you need to use the continuation bet each time, particularly at this level. If I raise AK and face a multi-way pot, there are times when I'll just check-fold it when I miss. If I know my opponent is a calling station, there's no point in bothering. Your moneymakers here (.10/.25) are sets and straights, so I like to wait for those opportunities to build a big pot. You'd think that opponents would catch on that you're checking when you miss and betting when you have the goods, but they really don't. Along those lines, even when you hit TPTK on the flop, there still isn't a need to build a big pot there. I generally try to keep the pot size fair despite likely having the best hand, as again I don't want huge pots with one pair. That limper ahead of you who called your raise with A6 is gonna frustrate the hell out of you when you play a big pot on a flop of A 2 6. Keep'em small and in that case you can pat yourself on the back for losing the minimum, instead of tilting with that "stoooopid AK"!!!!
  13. l[dip]l l[dip]l is offline

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    Apr 1st, 2007 (4/1/2007 11:49am) in reply to GoldenDomer9

    Ty sir, some very solid advice.

    However I feel that building a pot with AK is not a bad play, although im a very cautious if some one plays back at me. If I am doing the betting I do not mind building the pot. I feel that this is very profitable at this level, as there are alot of people that will have say AJ in their hand and feel that their hand is good enough to call you to the river with (especially if you raised pre flop - as you have a reason to bet, so "real" strength is minimised - i dont know if you understand this point but it makes alot of sense to me, if not just ask and i will explain my idea) on a flop of A 2 6.
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  14. acecatcher26 acecatcher26 is offline

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    Apr 1st, 2007 (4/1/2007 1:17pm) in reply to sleepi

    Now way I repop with ak pre from the blinds in a micro level game. The only situation where I would, is if I have less that 20-30bbs. And that is mega short stack ninja mode.
  15. bad grr bad grr is offline

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    Apr 1st, 2007 (4/1/2007 1:56pm) in reply to acecatcher26

    in the super low stakes cash games these donkeys call you down with almost anything, so i wouldn't recommend firing too often at a flop you missed. Often they will check behind and you'll get a free card. Basically don't bluff at a pot when you're out of position, it's going to make it harder to play the later streets.
  16. GoldenDomer9 GoldenDomer9 is offline

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    Apr 1st, 2007 (4/1/2007 8:57pm) in reply to l[dip]l

    dip-

    I hear ya man. It's one of those things that is often very situational. On one hand, I sometimes justify playing a big pot with one pair if I feel that I'm up against the micro calling station who is willing to go to war with AJ when an Ace flops. On the other hand, there are a lot of hands that beat you. I certainly understand what you're saying - as with almost all poker situations, it kind of "depends". My previous post indicates that I, generally speaking, err on the side of caution if I'm going to choose one way or the other.

    GL.
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