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Low stakes Bounty tourney, wwyd?

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  1. Alex Fowler Alex Fowler is offline

    Winton
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 81
    Joined: Oct 08

    Aug 7th, 2011 (8/7/2011 5:42pm)

    This hand happened recently and quite honestly I keep switching my opinion of whether I played this right. It felt like a puke situation at the time, but I took my time and eventually (For this specific spot) made the right decision. The villain I haven't been playing with long given the blinds and stack sizes his pre flop play seemed weak. This is also low stakes poker so really wierd shit is pretty common. I have been busier than most but not hyper active by any means, and not 3-bet yet on this relatively new table.

    So I guess my question is was this the optimal way to play the hand.

    After he jams on me, it's pretty nasty considering how many chips I have already committed to the hand and how little I'm holding, I tanked for a while but was struggling to put him on a hand, 99,1010,jj I could just about see, I could see another big ace, possibly with diamonds along with other broadway cards (diamonds) other than that, it just seemed like nothing. However I've repped a really tight range imo, I've 3 bet an utg raiser + caller, then chucked out a healthy cont bet, and still got reraised.

    Folding makes me a less than average stack but just about alive, Calling and winning gives me top spot.

    WWYD?

    pokerstars Game #65661704614: Tournament #424295419, $5.20+$1.30+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2011/08/07 16:48:17 WET [2011/08/07 11:48:17 ET]
    Table '424295419 4' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
    Seat 1: Cashewouten (3340 in chips)
    Seat 2: Hegy7 (9232 in chips)
    Seat 3: GRoCHoL KING (3654 in chips)
    Seat 4: ottocat01 (6248 in chips)
    Seat 5: cmpax_ru (8130 in chips)
    Seat 6: AKrAsAtA (20227 in chips)
    Seat 7: Kucheruks (10080 in chips)
    Seat 8: jwijsman (12777 in chips)
    Seat 9: Alex Fowler (9675 in chips)
    Cashewouten: posts the ante 25
    Hegy7: posts the ante 25
    GRoCHoL KING: posts the ante 25
    ottocat01: posts the ante 25
    cmpax_ru: posts the ante 25
    AKrAsAtA: posts the ante 25
    Kucheruks: posts the ante 25
    jwijsman: posts the ante 25
    Alex Fowler: posts the ante 25
    Cashewouten: posts small blind 125
    Hegy7: posts big blind 250
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Alex Fowler [Ac Kd]
    GRoCHoL KING: raises 312 to 562
    ottocat01: folds
    cmpax_ru: folds
    AKrAsAtA: calls 562
    Kucheruks: folds
    jwijsman: folds
    Alex Fowler: raises 1111 to 1673
    Cashewouten: folds
    Hegy7: folds
    GRoCHoL KING: folds
    AKrAsAtA: calls 1111
    *** FLOP *** [7h 8d 3d]
    AKrAsAtA: checks
    Alex Fowler: bets 2995
    AKrAsAtA: raises 15534 to 18529 and is all-in
    Alex Fowler: calls 4982 and is all-in
    Uncalled bet (10552) returned to AKrAsAtA
    *** TURN *** [7h 8d 3d] [8h]
    *** RIVER *** [7h 8d 3d 8h] [Kc]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    AKrAsAtA: shows [Td Jd] (a pair of Eights)
    Alex Fowler: shows [Ac Kd] (two pair, Kings and Eights)
    Alex Fowler collected 20462 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 20462 | Rake 0
    Board [7h 8d 3d 8h Kc]
    Seat 1: Cashewouten (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 2: Hegy7 (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 3: GRoCHoL KING folded before Flop
    Seat 4: ottocat01 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: cmpax_ru folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: AKrAsAtA showed [Td Jd] and lost with a pair of Eights
    Seat 7: Kucheruks folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: jwijsman folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: Alex Fowler (button) showed [Ac Kd] and won (20462) with two pair, Kings and Eights
  2. terb11 terb11 is offline

    Raleigh, NC
    United States

    Posts: 2
    Joined: Feb 09

    Aug 7th, 2011 (8/7/2011 6:04pm) in reply to Alex Fowler

    With the way played, I think the Villain is really repping what he turned over which is a draw. I think think if he has 99s, 10s, or JJ, he leads flop to protect his hand. I think it is a gross spot, but in many cases you are ahead.
  3. PeaceGotAces PeaceGotAces is offline

    Halifax
    Canada

    Posts: 275
    Joined: Feb 10

    Aug 7th, 2011 (8/7/2011 6:51pm) in reply to terb11

    It has to be borderline/slightly -ev, even when you put that much money in. ^^I really don't think he donk leads to protect his hand..he's probably check shoving his entire range when you cbet so much. I'd squeeze around the same like 1700-1800. Im not making it 3000 off the flop, right around 1800-2000 is going to do the same thing. If he calls that i'm shoving almost any turn if he checks. In a 5$ he probably has any pair or two overs with a FD...he check shoves his over pairs, sets and FDs imo. The only thing he has that your beating is the FD. If his range is something like: 77+,33,AdQd,AdJd,AdTd,QdJd,JdTd (Theres probably more FDs in his range and maybe pairs too, seems close enough tho)you're only like 23%. it's an easy fold if you save yourself more chips by cbetting less. When you make it 3k you almost force yourself to make a bad/borderline call. When you squeeze the make a big cbet he's not shoving air, so i'd just cbet smaller and go away if he shoves/ re-raises.
  4. Alex Fowler Alex Fowler is offline

    Winton
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 81
    Joined: Oct 08

    Aug 7th, 2011 (8/7/2011 7:31pm) in reply to PeaceGotAces

    thanks for the feedback, but I do think a couple of points could be discussed further, firstly I think your range is too tight, as I said at this level you will get dipshits going meh he never hit that, donk shoving and preying you fold, this is the problem at this level is some players are so erratic it can be near impossible to assign them ranges, you wouldn't believe how many times I've seen this spot and then the fish turn over like AJo and cry in chatbox that their ace high was outkicked, in all spots at micro and low imo you have to assign to the range that they haven't got a clue (unless proven otherwise) I mean you have chucked in a ton of possible holdings which are just terrible to have played given the preflop action and yet not given him credit for having been equally bad on the flop. Secondly do we not feel betting 1800-2000 into 4500 on the flop looks like a scared bet? It's fine if thats your standard bet sizing I guess (assuming they're paying that much attention - when they're probably not) but ... my normal post flop bet sized is like 60-70% of the pot. Obviously in some situations I would change it, but normally when I lower it, it's to induce action, something we certainly don't want here.

    For the record i'm probably pretty bad at assigning/exagerating the 'dipshit' range, and using it occasionally to justify hero/donk calls :P
    Edited By: Alex Fowler Aug 7th, 2011 at 07:49 PM
    Reason: typo
    Thread Starter
  5. PeaceGotAces PeaceGotAces is offline

    Halifax
    Canada

    Posts: 275
    Joined: Feb 10

    Aug 7th, 2011 (8/7/2011 8:34pm) in reply to Alex Fowler

    -The range isn't really too tight imo, more loose than tight. Sure in a micro he's going to flat your 3bet with whatever he flatted the initial raise with. But on the flop, he has no fold equity, and you made a large cbet that commits you. I don't think he shows up with air here very often at all because you pretty much can't fold.

    -If i had more chips i might go like 2300-2500 because i 3bet and it is a drawy board..but my standard cbet size is around 1/3 (when there's antes)the pot whether i have it or i don't. I really only bet more when i'm trying to protect a hand. I def don't see cbetting small as scared..cbetting huge just looks like you want no action. You're asking for it when you make 70% pot cbets on a board like K75 when you can make it 33% and get the same info. Getting shoved pretty much says: you need to hit an A or K, or that you need to fade a flush. It's going to be pretty much the same situation if you cbet less, you whiff, try to win it on the flop, he shoves you pretty much have to fold. You still have plenty of chips...you're going broke a decent amount of the time when you get it in here.
  6. Alex Fowler Alex Fowler is offline

    Winton
    United Kingdom

    Posts: 81
    Joined: Oct 08

    Aug 7th, 2011 (8/7/2011 9:37pm) in reply to PeaceGotAces

    Do you not find yourself getting stung by people reraising light on you, or paying to hit draws more frequently by not raising more as a standard? I don't want to bang on too much that this is at low stakes but people will call you lighter than they should, and 4 to a flush or straight is un-foldable to alot of players down there, surely your missing alot of value and not pricing people out of draws by betting so little post flop? If someone is determined to try and make their draw against me, I'm sure as hell going to make them pay to get there.

    I do agree with you about more often than not him having something in this spot, my initial reaction was 'crap busted' but given my percieved range of his I felt I still had to call given the situation. Especially seeing you want to win the tourney and not just cash, if I fold i'm down to a small stack and quite possibly a min cash, but calling and winning makes me chip leader, calling and losing IIRC was still a min cash, although my play style wouldn't be affected by getting a min cash or not.

    You are probably right I guess and that I'm treating him as if he's worse than he actually is but lets be honest, it's not easy putting someone on a hand given the way he played preflop and the 3 flop cards.
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