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MiniUBOC hand V Brainwash+ hand where my cold 4bet AK gets flatted - Lines?

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  1. bonflizubi bonflizubi is offline

    Cambridge, MA
    United States

    Posts: 4,520
    Joined: Sep 07

    Aug 30th, 2010 (8/30/2010 12:05am)

    Min Uboc ($55) 10k chip tny. early levels - 2 hands with huge pots - wondering what the lines were like.


    Hand 1: 3bet by brainwash

    Like the 10th hand -i'd dbd the table so I know Brainwash is top 50 ranked. I obv cant fold to the 3bet pre this deepstacked, then with this board, is anyone folding or do we all call him down here...? Obv I'm beating TT or JJ (though I dont know if he 3bets these pre) but KK, AA crush me...

    What's his 3bet range pre? would he play AKdd the same way?

    Stage #337504916 Tourney ID 5634423 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 30 - 2010-08-29 16:12:15 (ET)
    Table: 63 (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
    Seat 1 - UGHRIVERJACK (11,020 in chips)
    Seat 2 - BARTONJOEL (10,005 in chips)
    Seat 3 - GOOGILY121 (9,960 in chips)
    Seat 4 - ZUBS1AA (10,025 in chips)
    Seat 5 - RYAN45 (9,950 in chips)
    Seat 6 - BRAINWASHER (9,920 in chips)
    Seat 7 - DELFUNKY (10,060 in chips)
    Seat 8 - ODI420 (9,055 in chips)
    Seat 9 - RED 5 BLACK 2 (10,005 in chips)
    BRAINWASHER - Posts small blind 15
    DELFUNKY - Posts big blind 30
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to ZUBS1AA [Qs Qd]
    ODI420 - Folds
    RED 5 BLACK 2 - Folds
    UGHRIVERJACK - Folds
    BARTONJOEL - Folds
    GOOGILY121 - Folds
    ZUBS1AA - Raises 90 to 90
    RYAN45 - Folds
    BRAINWASHER - Raises 285 to 300
    DELFUNKY - Folds
    ZUBS1AA - Calls 210
    *** FLOP *** [4d 2d 8c]
    BRAINWASHER - Bets 400
    ZUBS1AA - Calls 400 <-----------obv must call here
    *** TURN *** [4d 2d 8c] [6h]
    BRAINWASHER - Bets 1,050
    ZUBS1AA - Calls 1,050 <------------ think I have to call here still?
    *** RIVER *** [4d 2d 8c 6h] [8h]
    BRAINWASHER - Bets 2,250 <---------- OK - now he definitely has a big hand but am i ahead or behind? or is it AKdd bluffing?
    ZUBS1AA -





    Hand 2: I cold 4bet AK and get flatted.

    Other than above hand v brainwash that been quiet and noone took a flop with me when i raised.

    Villain plays high stakes with ~$175 avg buyin on UB. and is winning over ~165 tny's at 30%

    So, wondering about my line here with AK.

    are people flatting pre? agree with 3bet? as played cbet? and then the turn where I hit the ace?

    Stage #337557153 Tourney ID 5634423 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 50 - 2010-08-29 16:39:45 (ET)
    Table: 63 (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
    Seat 1 - UGHRIVERJACK (10,410 in chips)
    Seat 2 - BARTONJOEL (10,420 in chips)
    Seat 3 - GOOGILY121 (9,750 in chips)
    Seat 4 - ZUBS1AA (6,095 in chips)
    Seat 5 - RYAN45 (10,140 in chips)
    Seat 6 - BRAINWASHER (15,200 in chips)
    Seat 7 - DELFUNKY (9,605 in chips)
    Seat 8 - ODI420 (8,530 in chips)
    Seat 9 - SADIEBELL1 (9,845 in chips)
    ZUBS1AA - Posts small blind 25
    RYAN45 - Posts big blind 50
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to ZUBS1AA [Ad Kd]
    BRAINWASHER - Folds
    DELFUNKY - Folds
    ODI420 - Folds
    SADIEBELL1 - Raises 150 to 150
    UGHRIVERJACK - Raises 385 to 385 <----my gut said this guy was just position raising... might/might not be a big hand.
    BARTONJOEL - Folds
    GOOGILY121 - Folds
    ZUBS1AA - Raises 1,175 to 1,200 <------- didn't want to open ship 100BB, but didn't want to flat and play 3 ways OOP eitherr.
    RYAN45 - Folds
    SADIEBELL1 - Folds
    UGHRIVERJACK - Calls 815
    *** FLOP *** [Jh 2h 3c]
    ZUBS1AA - Bets 1,300 <----------- Don't think I can check to him here after the 4bet unless I am looking to CRAI? plus I'd cbet here even with JJ+ (though villain doesnt know that) but also that bet pot commits me if he calls....... :(

    UGHRIVERJACK - Calls 1,300 <---------- that doesnt look good. but other than slowplayed JJ or monster I'm not sure what he has here....
    *** TURN *** [Jh 2h 3c] [Ah]
    ZUBS1AA -??

    pot is 5200, I have 3600 he has 7900.

    now I've hit the ace, I've got to jam right since I got committed and hit my card.. and just hope he doesn't have JJ or AA when he calls. QQh or KKh hopefuly do call...

    Thoughts on all of it would be great. If I played it like a donk lemme know.
     
  2. jsagan77 jsagan77 is offline

    Honolulu, HI
    United States

    Posts: 759
    Joined: Aug 08

    Aug 30th, 2010 (8/30/2010 12:29am) in reply to bonflizubi

    Sick spots... First one, I think you're definitely behind. Doubt he's ever 3 barreling you light on consecutive streets. He probably shuts down on the river if he misses... Calling is definitely easier than folding but from my experience I know I'm rarely ahead in this spot...

    The second I don't like the cold call after you 4 bet.. It screams calling for value.. That said I don't like the lead out after air balling the flop. IMO you overplayed AK in an inflated pot OOP. I think the best play there, especially being so deep stacked, is to call and build the pot as your hand materializes. A case can be made for 4-betting AKs there too but I think it's a bit spewy this early in a MTT. That A turning though has to have your head spinning. Hopefully he had KK and you crushed..

    Again, Gross spots man, hope I'm wrong and you destroyed!


     
    Originally Posted by bonflizubi View Post

    Min Uboc ($55) 10k chip tny. early levels - 2 hands with huge pots - wondering what the lines were like.


    Hand 1: 3bet by brainwash

    Like the 10th hand -i'd dbd the table so I know Brainwash is top 50 ranked. I obv cant fold to the 3bet pre this deepstacked, then with this board, is anyone folding or do we all call him down here...? Obv I'm beating TT or JJ (though I dont know if he 3bets these pre) but KK, AA crush me...

    What's his 3bet range pre? would he play AKdd the same way?

    Stage #337504916 Tourney ID 5634423 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 30 - 2010-08-29 16:12:15 (ET)
    Table: 63 (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
    Seat 1 - UGHRIVERJACK (11,020 in chips)
    Seat 2 - BARTONJOEL (10,005 in chips)
    Seat 3 - GOOGILY121 (9,960 in chips)
    Seat 4 - ZUBS1AA (10,025 in chips)
    Seat 5 - RYAN45 (9,950 in chips)
    Seat 6 - BRAINWASHER (9,920 in chips)
    Seat 7 - DELFUNKY (10,060 in chips)
    Seat 8 - ODI420 (9,055 in chips)
    Seat 9 - RED 5 BLACK 2 (10,005 in chips)
    BRAINWASHER - Posts small blind 15
    DELFUNKY - Posts big blind 30
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to ZUBS1AA [Qs Qd]
    ODI420 - Folds
    RED 5 BLACK 2 - Folds
    UGHRIVERJACK - Folds
    BARTONJOEL - Folds
    GOOGILY121 - Folds
    ZUBS1AA - Raises 90 to 90
    RYAN45 - Folds
    BRAINWASHER - Raises 285 to 300
    DELFUNKY - Folds
    ZUBS1AA - Calls 210
    *** FLOP *** [4d 2d 8c]
    BRAINWASHER - Bets 400
    ZUBS1AA - Calls 400 <-----------obv must call here
    *** TURN *** [4d 2d 8c] [6h]
    BRAINWASHER - Bets 1,050
    ZUBS1AA - Calls 1,050 <------------ think I have to call here still?
    *** RIVER *** [4d 2d 8c 6h] [8h]
    BRAINWASHER - Bets 2,250 <---------- OK - now he definitely has a big hand but am i ahead or behind? or is it AKdd bluffing?
    ZUBS1AA -





    Hand 2: I cold 4bet AK and get flatted.

    Other than above hand v brainwash that been quiet and noone took a flop with me when i raised.

    Villain plays high stakes with ~$175 avg buyin on UB. and is winning over ~165 tny's at 30%

    So, wondering about my line here with AK.

    are people flatting pre? agree with 3bet? as played cbet? and then the turn where I hit the ace?

    Stage #337557153 Tourney ID 5634423 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit 50 - 2010-08-29 16:39:45 (ET)
    Table: 63 (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
    Seat 1 - UGHRIVERJACK (10,410 in chips)
    Seat 2 - BARTONJOEL (10,420 in chips)
    Seat 3 - GOOGILY121 (9,750 in chips)
    Seat 4 - ZUBS1AA (6,095 in chips)
    Seat 5 - RYAN45 (10,140 in chips)
    Seat 6 - BRAINWASHER (15,200 in chips)
    Seat 7 - DELFUNKY (9,605 in chips)
    Seat 8 - ODI420 (8,530 in chips)
    Seat 9 - SADIEBELL1 (9,845 in chips)
    ZUBS1AA - Posts small blind 25
    RYAN45 - Posts big blind 50
    *** POCKET CARDS ***
    Dealt to ZUBS1AA [Ad Kd]
    BRAINWASHER - Folds
    DELFUNKY - Folds
    ODI420 - Folds
    SADIEBELL1 - Raises 150 to 150
    UGHRIVERJACK - Raises 385 to 385 <----my gut said this guy was just position raising... might/might not be a big hand.
    BARTONJOEL - Folds
    GOOGILY121 - Folds
    ZUBS1AA - Raises 1,175 to 1,200 <------- didn't want to open ship 100BB, but didn't want to flat and play 3 ways OOP eitherr.
    RYAN45 - Folds
    SADIEBELL1 - Folds
    UGHRIVERJACK - Calls 815
    *** FLOP *** [Jh 2h 3c]
    ZUBS1AA - Bets 1,300 <----------- Don't think I can check to him here after the 4bet unless I am looking to CRAI? plus I'd cbet here even with JJ+ (though villain doesnt know that) but also that bet pot commits me if he calls....... :(

    UGHRIVERJACK - Calls 1,300 <---------- that doesnt look good. but other than slowplayed JJ or monster I'm not sure what he has here....
    *** TURN *** [Jh 2h 3c] [Ah]
    ZUBS1AA -??

    pot is 5200, I have 3600 he has 7900.

    now I've hit the ace, I've got to jam right since I got committed and hit my card.. and just hope he doesn't have JJ or AA when he calls. QQh or KKh hopefuly do call...

    Thoughts on all of it would be great. If I played it like a donk lemme know.

    Edited By: jsagan77 Aug 30th, 2010 at 12:30 AM
  3. jalman1 jalman1 is offline

    Posts: 6,451
    Joined: Jun 06

    Aug 30th, 2010 (8/30/2010 1:22am) in reply to jsagan77

    part of me wants to bluff shove him off AA/KK in hand 1 but im afraid he might be happy to just call and double up or get the screen space back for something more then a 50 fo. default would be to fold river and maybe fold turn

    and i def flat the original 3 bet in hand 2
    107 3
  4. bonflizubi bonflizubi is offline

    Cambridge, MA
    United States

    Posts: 4,520
    Joined: Sep 07

    Aug 30th, 2010 (8/30/2010 1:33am) in reply to jalman1

     
    Originally Posted by jalman1 View Post

    part of me wants to bluff shove him off AA/KK in hand 1 but im afraid he might be happy to just call and double up or get the screen space back for something more then a 50 fo. default would be to fold river and maybe fold turn

    and i def flat the original 3 bet in hand 2

    Yeah, I thought about bluff shoving the river in hand one but that didn't seem like a good choice. so you think it's pretty much AA KK in hand 1 and that he isn't 3betting worse?

    Hand 2 it's a flat because of stacks? (Not used to playing that deep, I made the default 30-40bb play...)
     
    Thread Starter
  5. Jennifear Jennifear is online now

    Niagara Falls, NY
    United States

    Posts: 10,222
    Joined: Nov 05

    Aug 30th, 2010 (8/30/2010 6:08pm) in reply to bonflizubi

    Hand 1 I think you are beat and bluff shoving to get a player (even top ranked) to try to fold AA is a really bad idea.

    Hand 2 Jamski. You semibluffed the flop on a c-bet (very reasonable) and you got what you wanted. Since there's a draw out there, checking to induce a bluff on the scare card isn't a great line.
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