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MTT advice??

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  1. 100mile 100mile is offline

    Malta

    Posts: 75
    Joined: Aug 07

    Oct 22nd, 2008 (10/22/2008 3:03pm)

    So heres my problem right now in the later stages of MTTs. I keep finding myself in tough spots where i'm not sure what the right play is when im in like the 18-23 BB range. I know you can never raise fold w < 20bbs so what am I supposed to do w hands like A10-AQ, or mid pairs in middle pos?? Keep finding myself in spots where I feel like a fold is too nitty but a raise is bad becasue its likely to put me in a tough spot post flop and an open shove seems like a bit of an overshove??
    798 
  2. tvyawbus tvyawbus is offline

    St Petersburg, FL
    United States

    Posts: 250
    Joined: Sep 07

    Oct 22nd, 2008 (10/22/2008 3:07pm) in reply to 100mile

    when you get in situations like you mention above you should play them the way you feel is right based on reads position etc etc and then post hand histories for other players to give you their input or join a training site or read a book
  3. leftygrove leftygrove is offline

    Storrs Mansfield, CT
    United States

    Posts: 2,107
    Joined: Jul 08

    Oct 22nd, 2008 (10/22/2008 3:10pm) in reply to 100mile

     
    Originally Posted by 100mile View Post

    I know you can never raise fold w < 20bbs so what am I supposed to do w hands like A10-AQ, or mid pairs in middle pos??

    I'm not an MTT guru by any means, but this is how I feel about this:

    I think with <20BB's, you should eliminate A-10 and A-J unless you are in the cutoff, button, or blinds. Middle pairs are a little trickier, and I honestly am not sure of the answer to that.

    I don't know if you can NEVER bet/fold with, say, 19 BB's... if table dynamics are right, I could open atc with 19 BB's. I think it was Bond who said there are just some people that are "resteal incapable." Especially at bubble time.
  4. bonflizubi bonflizubi is offline

    Cambridge, MA
    United States

    Posts: 4,520
    Joined: Sep 07

    Oct 22nd, 2008 (10/22/2008 3:32pm) in reply to 100mile

     
    Originally Posted by tvyawbus View Post

    when you get in situations like you mention above you should play them the way you feel is right based on reads position etc etc and then post hand histories for other players to give you their input or join a training site or read a book

    I like this advice- doesn't help you in the hand yo uare in... but sound advice as a way to learn by doing.

     
    Originally Posted by 100mile View Post

    So heres my problem right now in the later stages of MTTs. I keep finding myself in tough spots where i'm not sure what the right play is when im in like the 18-23 BB range. I know you can never raise fold w < 20bbs so what am I supposed to do w hands like A10-AQ, or mid pairs in middle pos?? Keep finding myself in spots where I feel like a fold is too nitty but a raise is bad becasue its likely to put me in a tough spot post flop and an open shove seems like a bit of an overshove??

    OK, I think I play decently but at tiems am a little ignorant on theory. I have no problem raise folding at 18-20 BB - (of course, I don't want to fold there....) especially if I am making it only 2.3-2.6x raise and it's an open raise from the button, CO or hijack and I've had any success taking blinds down that way in previous orbits.

    If I raise fold from the button and then the next hand raise again, 99% they don't shove on me the second time. I think it shows strength to say *I'm not backing down to that*. I'll come right back and do it again the next hand or opportunity if I know they are really tending to fold to me. Also, a raise/fold there from late position may well induce a wanted shove on you when you finally raise with a monster.

    Of course the stack sizes of the blinds are important here, I'm not raiseing into the real small stacks as lightly as I would the bigger ones. I'm loking for mid to larger but not monster stacks. Passive guys as well.

    If you are late position and it is folded to ME I am raising A10+ no doubt, sometimes even A9. Also suited aces. KQ, KJ, QJ, JT, any two paint really, a whole bunch of stuff. As long as I've kept my bet sizes consistently small sized like the 2.5 they won't know the difference. I'm even opening those pots with suited connectors, even small ones assuming the most resistance I am getting is the occasional call. Then I get a chance to outplay them with position.

    And if they shove on you, then decide if they might be shoving in frustration or only waiting for a monster. In these spots, I'm calling much lighter than I might otherwise here, especially if you've stolen a bunch of blinds. Some would argue for better spots, part of me says it's a chance to go big or go home possibly. Sometimes yo uhave to get it in with what might be the worst. But let player and table dynamics dictate your play here.

    Mid pairs in mid position? if there are antes as well as blinds, I'm not agaisnt the overshove. You'll take the blinds and antes most of the time. With that big a stack noone calls off lite on you I'd think it is +EV to pick up 2.5 BB on 18 (assuming antes = ~1BB) vs the percentage of the time someone wakes up with something big enough to call you and risk a huge chunk of stack there. EP? OK, then maybe I limp and hope the table folds around... or give up the one BB if I get raise/shoved out of the pot.

    Cliff notes? We can only get so picky at those blind levels, especially the later in the tourney. I'd rather open a pot than not, and if re-shoved, I'm often willing to call light a bit for a chance at, well, having a chance.

    ballas please flame away if you think I'm off the mark here....but it has worked for me.
     
  5. Mrfreeze53 Mrfreeze53 is offline

    Posts: 535
    Joined: Oct 07

    Oct 22nd, 2008 (10/22/2008 3:52pm) in reply to leftygrove

     
    Originally Posted by leftygrove View Post

     
    Originally Posted by 100mile View Post

    I know you can never raise fold w < 20bbs so what am I supposed to do w hands like A10-AQ, or mid pairs in middle pos??

    I'm not an MTT guru by any means, but this is how I feel about this:

    I think with <20BB's, you should eliminate A-10 and A-J unless you are in the cutoff, button, or blinds. Middle pairs are a little trickier, and I honestly am not sure of the answer to that.

    I don't know if you can NEVER bet/fold with, say, 19 BB's... if table dynamics are right, I could open atc with 19 BB's. I think it was Bond who said there are just some people that are "resteal incapable." Especially at bubble time.

    I dont think you should say eliminate those hands from your range cause as u said with the right table dynamics its def a good idea to through in a raise. Also theres always situations that arise that a bet fold with 20 bb's or less is legit.
  6. leftygrove leftygrove is offline

    Storrs Mansfield, CT
    United States

    Posts: 2,107
    Joined: Jul 08

    Oct 22nd, 2008 (10/22/2008 5:08pm) in reply to Mrfreeze53

     
    Originally Posted by Mrfreeze53 View Post

    I dont think you should say eliminate those hands from your range cause as u said with the right table dynamics its def a good idea to through in a raise. Also theres always situations that arise that a bet fold with 20 bb's or less is legit.

    Yeah, I meant you could remove them from your "standard" betting range. Against an average table, I would not bet an A-10o from the hijack with <20BB's. Likewise, I've raised a 10-2o from UTG 5-handed on the FT bubble of the $3 rebuy, because I knew it played the same as an A-Q... if somebody raised, I'd probably have to fold because everyone just instantly nitted up.
  7. ReBinkRiver ReBinkRiver is offline

    Olympia, WA
    United States

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    Oct 22nd, 2008 (10/22/2008 5:24pm) in reply to 100mile

    I wrote a blog just now about this topic 100mile, go ahead and check it out. I think it will outline clearly the choices to make late in a tournament.
  8. The Maven The Maven is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

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    Joined: Jul 06

    Oct 22nd, 2008 (10/22/2008 5:42pm) in reply to ReBinkRiver

    Never say never. Gray areas.
     1
  9. Goodyvaj763 Goodyvaj763 is offline

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    Joined: Jan 07

    Oct 22nd, 2008 (10/22/2008 5:48pm) in reply to 100mile

    BUY A BOOK! read it and read it again high light main points..........JOIN a training site and watch the videos and watch it again.......when you get kick out of a tourney GO BACK and watch it again and again! take notes....that's my advice man! because some of the things I do you won't understand! GLGL and best of luck to you!

    Goodyvaj763.
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