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MTT questions: rebuy vs. freezout and large field vs. small field

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  1. roachclips roachclips is offline

    United States

    Posts: 232
    Joined: Oct 05

    Mar 11th, 2006 (3/11/2006 4:43pm)

    Ok - I am a low limit nobody trying to work my way up. With my recent score in the $3r on stars, I have about $4400 total for a bankroll. I am an MTT player. That is what I enjoy and I'm pretty sure that's what I am best at. I am, however, stoopid and mathematically challenged and I am hoping you guys can help me figure out which tourneys I should focus on for maximum value and minimum risk.

    <span>1) Rebuy vs. Freezout </span>-

    PokerXFactor will help with early freezout strategy for sure. As for now, though, I basically play tight early and need a doubling hand to show up or I usually end up with ~1100 chips at the 75/150 level. Obv this means I end up all in in marginal situations like A high on the button, etc. to try to stay alive.

    In a rebuy tournament, though, I can pretty much guarantee myself a good stack by the end of the hour. Even if I don't amass a huge stack, there are MANY more chips in play than there would be in a freezout. So, chips are easier to come by after the rebuy period aswell. The blinds go up at the same rate as a freezout though, so I generally have a high M and I can play however I need to for the table I am at.

    Obviously it is easier for me to chip up and stay ahead of the blinds with a large stack and therefore it def seems I go deep more often("seems" becuase I do not have MTT stats anymore, as noted in my bad beat post "riptide").

    So, question 1 - <span>What are the disadvantages of rebuys?</span>

    <span>2) Large field vs. small field -</span>

    <span>a)</span>In a sng STT, you play directly against each person that puts money into the prize pool. In a large MTT, you only see a small % of the people that put money into the prize pool. <span>What does this mean?</span> Is that why the ROI for each is so different?

    <span>b) </span>Kind of related to (<span>a</span>)... the larger the MTT, the more opponents that will be eliminated by others at other tables(sorta like dead $, right?). <span>Does this mean bigger is better?</span> Also, it takes 8hrs to finish a tourney with thousands of entrants, yet it takes 4hrs to win a small 180 person tourney. <span>

    c) Am I five times as likely to win a 300 man tourney as I am to win a 1500 man tourney?</span>

    I started wondering all of this because I had been dying to play nothing but the 180 man sngs. I did not have enough of a bankroll to confidently attack them until I chopped the $3r and now I am thinking that perhaps large field rebuys are what I should focus on($2's, $3's and $5's for now, with $10's as a goal).

    Finally, <span>what are the advantages of freezouts?</span>

    I haven't said this yet, so I'll just tack it on the end here - <span>Big </span>thanks to pocketfives and the whole community for great articles and discussion that has helped me get this far!!
  2. jtown1010 jtown1010 is offline

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    Mar 11th, 2006 (3/11/2006 6:38pm) in reply to roachclips

    You should always play the tourney's you feel most comfortable in. The single table tourneys pay 33% of the entries, where as the multi table tourneys pay out in the 10-20% range. Your ROI should be higher in the STT's, if you are a tight player and have trouble getting into the top 3 spot's in MTT's where the most money is at. Freeze-out's and re-buys need to be approached differantly. Looking for a spot early to double up in freeze-outs will help your flexiblity later in the tourney to make more plays for pots. If you fell more comfortable playing re-buys, you should focus on that till you get comfortable in freeze-outs.
  3. Askesis_ Askesis_ is offline

    Tampa, FL
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    Mar 11th, 2006 (3/11/2006 6:49pm) in reply to roachclips

    I like bigger tournaments, but it's really personal preference. The more players, and thus more hands, you will need to make more decisions and survive through more bad beats, but your reward will be higher if you win.

    c) Am I five times as likely to win a 300 man tourney as I am to win a 1500 man tourney?
    No. You are MORE likely, yes, but not five times a likely. It's not a direct correlation
     
  4. Generaly Generaly is offline

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    Mar 11th, 2006 (3/11/2006 7:07pm) in reply to Askesis_

    I like the 10k to 25k guarantee tournaments with about 200/300 people. In sofaras rebuys as long as you figure 3to4 x the rebuy amount as your entry fee it really doesnt matter that much from a freeze out cept for your strategy for playing the first hour.

    Throw in the occasional big feild big reward tourny and you have a nice mix
  5. luckyshades luckyshades is offline

    Penrith
    Australia

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    Mar 11th, 2006 (3/11/2006 7:56pm) in reply to roachclips

    Where on Earth do you find 10k guarantee tournaments with only 200-300 people. I must have read that wrong, I took a very bad hit to my head @ soccer today, but please, tell me and I will transfer my bankroll there immediately.
     
  6. Generaly Generaly is offline

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    Mar 11th, 2006 (3/11/2006 7:59pm) in reply to luckyshades

    Right now Im in the 20k guarantee w/rebuys $35 on Bodog and it started with 214, the 10k's usally have a 100 to 200 more
  7. luckyshades luckyshades is offline

    Penrith
    Australia

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    Mar 11th, 2006 (3/11/2006 8:02pm) in reply to roachclips

    Ahh Bodog ... well, I'm not smart enough to work out their lobby, so alas I can't play there. Honestly, I've never been more confused in my life ... except for this one time in this 'alternative night club' in San Francisco .. but thats a story for a WHOLE other time .. lol .. kidding, obv!!
     
  8. lind0 lind0 is offline

    Vancouver
    Canada

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    Mar 11th, 2006 (3/11/2006 11:48pm) in reply to roachclips

    I think these are great questions and I'd like to see an answer to them as well. I don't really think I'm qualified to answer most of them myself, but I can definitely relate to your experience with rebuys. It's weird but this is a post that I could almost have written myself as these questions have recently been on my mind too.

    The only thing I can really comment on is question 1- What are the disadvantages of rebuys?

    Honestly, I can't really think of any disadvantages to rebuy tournaments for a good player. You get to start with a stack that's double the amount you normally would, you're a big stack immediately, you have more time to make things happen, you generally have a higher "M" at all the critical points of the tournament, and the "dead money" players have a chance to put even more dead money into the pot. I'm no math genius either, but that sounds pretty good to me. Combine all that with the fact that I've had a ton of success (and it sounds like you have too) in rebuys, and it doesn't take long to figure out that we need to start milking this for all it's worth.

    That's really all I can tell you. Do what you're best at. Hopefully one of the math geeks around here can shed some light on the rest of this. Good luck and see you at the tables.
  9. roachclips roachclips is offline

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    Mar 12th, 2006 (3/12/2006 2:33pm) in reply to lind0

    Thanks for the comments and pointers guys. I suppose for now I will stick to rebuys with large fields. I think in these I will go longer between top 3 scores than in a smaller game, but as previously posted, not proportionally so. That means higher ROI or more money or something, yes?

    Also, I think it is easier to cash in the large field tourneys, since there are more people playing, getting paid, and being eliminated. Only top few spots are gonna pay the bills, but the small scores add up and should decrease the effects of variance on the bankroll, right?

    Like I said, ty for the comments guys. I'm glad to hear somebody else has the same questions, lind0.

    More discussion would be great.

    GL
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