I just got knocked out of the 16k Guarantee on bodog with KK vs AK. I'm in late position the guy 2 from UTG raised the blinds 3x's in front of me. He has 9k i have 7k which is the average chip stack at this point. I push all in, he calls and a ace hits the flop. At the time I figured i was over betting i just wanted to take it down there. Should I just call that raise or just reraise and then see a flop or did I do the right move and just hit a bad beat?
Thats what i was thinking, I'm not playing to win $50 here. I just cant believe this guy would risk pratically his whole stack with AK.
On Sunday I was short stacked and pushed with AK suited 4 off the money in the 100k and hit a A88 on the flop, turn 9, river 10 and get beat by JQ. Unreal bad luck with and vs AK lately.
Well you could always call and see a flop because your probably going to be hu with guy and have position on him. Why are people so afraid with KK? If your not willing to fold when the scare card does come, never make this play with KK. Note you only want to flat call if the guy is real aggressive etc...
You could raise it and either push it on the flop no matter what or play it the same as calling.
I think moving all in is ok depending on blind sizes. Im never folding KK pre but i will fold it on the flop when the ace hits and im still in good shape chip wise and i really think hes got a Ace.
"At the time I figured i was over betting i just wanted to take it down there" I would be thinking, WHATS THE BEST WAY THAT I CAN GET THE MOST CHIPS POSSIBLE?
Long and short of it, you got AI pre with KK vs AK, and anytime I can get my chips in with a dominant hand like that, mission accomplished. granted, you didn't see the desired results, but I don't see anything wrong with your play. Not sure what the blinds are, but if he raises to 2K, and you have 7K, the only options i see at that point is a flat call PF or a push. I personally like the push. Why re-pop or flat call when you know you've got him. I like putting pressure on him, and unfortunately, I guess he thought he was flipping and was willing to take agamble.
If you're stack was bigger, you might have had some other options, as one poster suggested, you could see a flop and push if no A hits. Commiting 1/3 of your chips, you dont have that luxury, so good play, tough result.
Good luck lightning!
The blinds at the time were 150/300 he raised to close to 1000. I had no intention of laying down KK my thought at the time were this. If I did a mid raise he was sure to call. I was raising with the intention of getting a AK or AQ hand out so i though maybe i'll raise to 4000 but then i figured he would either push or fold but this guy was calling alot of hands prior so i thought he would push so i decided to put the pressure on him and push myself. Brix is right I got my money in with the best hand and was a 65% favorite. I think in hind site i shouldve reraised him to 3k and if he were to call and the A hits the flop i couldve got away from it or if there were no A on the flop I could push there.
My second question is this... If it was the other way around and I had the AK was it the right call that he made? Obviously he won the hand so the easy answer is yes but if i were in his position im not sure that i would've called.
it depends on the player if its the right call, and about 20 other little things. But bottom line, in all my years of playing Texas Hold Em I've come to realize that only about 10-15% of people can actually fold big hands like that preflop - AK, AQ, AJ suited, sometimes KQ suited, even 99 or 10 10 to a large raise - people just can't give them up no matter how much preflop action, its like they just think there's no choice in the matter, its all or nothing RIGHT THERE. Oh man, especially with AK too, I swear people think that hand is every bit as good as QQ or KK. But what so many people don't realize is YOU DO HAVE A CHOICE, YOU CAN FOLD, YOU DONT HAVE TO GO BROKE WITH IT AND THEN SHRUG YOUR SHOULDERS. If you think you're beaten, why call off your chips unless you're already committed or short stacked? some people don't get that.
For example, last night in a cash game I'm holding 99 and am facing 2 allins in front of me. I thought for awhile, judged on the players that its likely I'm holding the best hand right now, but that hand holding up against TWO people's overs just wasn't something I wanted to risk for that amount of money, I fold, I would have been in the lead preflop and the flop would have killed me. 80-85% of your typical holdem players call in my position I think.
Anyways, don't waste your time thinking about if it was a good or bad play by him because you simply can't expect a random online player to have the ability to get off that hand.
Is it a bad call? in this exact circumstance I say its the right play for him to call with it, I prolly make the same call. Doesn't mean it was a good call though........
I would of raised to 3000, and then he probably reshoves, I call, and he gets there. If he just calls and an ace comes off, you may be able to get away from your hand. I know that I wouldn't because I would be thinking I was commited preflop.
That was a tough beat for sure, but I want to veer off course just a little bit, if that is ok.
With the EP player raising to 1000, I would be concerned about a raise to 7000 running the player off with not really much gain from picking up KK. What hands would he call his whole stack with? AA, KK, QQ, JJ, and AK unless he's really a loose player. The odds are not good for him to have AK or KK because you have KK. If he has AA you're probably busted no matter how the hand plays out. QQ and JJ still have a good chance of playing to the end with you because after a called re-raise they may feel pot committed.
Anyway, I would re-raise to 3000 here to try to get some action from lesser hands like AQ and maybe 99 or 1010 or even a stubborn KQ. I would figure to be in really good shape only worrying about an A on the flop. If the EP player has an A, there are only three more in the deck. So, 3/49+3/48+3/47 = 18.7% chance of flopping an A. Don't forget that you also have two kings in the deck that could give you a monster = 12.5% chance. Your net risk is not that high.
At this stage of the tournament, you really have nothing but an average chance of winning. I'm guessing there was still 150 people left. At some point you have to chip up. I think pushing all-in with KK needs to be examined. You need the chips and this could be a great spot. I think the correct play is to re-raise. Not because you are worried about leaving yourself the chance to lay your hand down, but because you want the extra chips. The opportunity to lay down is a positive side affect, but with 40% of your chips in the middle, it might be hard to do.
I know my argument is moot in this case because he DID call you as a huge underdog. But, generally, you will run people off with that size bet.
Anyway, I got a way from your question a bit, but thought you might like to hear a different idea.
Thanks for the advice. I think the best move now wouldve been to reraise to 3k as you suggested. I think what may have happened in this case also is that he may have put me on a weaker hand because my bet size was so large it appeared as if I didnt want to play it. I think if there were more callers after the raise than the push all in wouldve been the right move but with just him in the pot the 3k reraise would have been a better play. At least in this hand in particular i couldve got away from it after the flop.