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Multi table success but SNG failure

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  1. emilypoker emilypoker is offline

    Columbus Grove, OH
    United States

    Posts: 672
    Joined: Mar 06

    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 2:22pm)

    Ok so this is probably a dumb question but i think someone maybe able to help me. I generally play tournaments only. I don't like playing too high of buyins as my bankroll management doesn't allow for it. The weird thing is in the past two days i've won a 4 dollar 180 man and chopped one of those as well. BUT my Sit N go stats are terrible. Aweful actually. Why is it i can navigate a larger field easier then i can a 10 man field? I seem to be more patient in a multi table one. Anyone have any suggestions or advice? Thanks in advance..
  2. KingPariah KingPariah is offline

    Boone, NC
    United States

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 2:29pm) in reply to emilypoker

    I've had decent success at MTTs (not wonderful)...but sngs are by far my strong point...I'm literally about to walk out the door, but I'm making this post so I can check back tonight and I'll try and help ya
  3. Ari Ari is offline

    Toronto
    Canada

    Posts: 3,147
    Joined: Sep 05

    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 2:32pm) in reply to emilypoker

    mtt's reward aggression much more than sng's. If u win a sng u 5 time your money, if u win a mtt, u multiply by tons. Therefore, it makes sense to take some crazy risks in mtt's so that you will have a better shot @ winning it. The same cannot be said for sng's the biggest pay jump, is from 4 to 3'rd. Bubbling is not something to be proud of. Tighten up significantly, and you should see an improvement in results.

    Of course, take all this w/ a grain of salt, bec. I too am down significantly in sng's.
    155 21
  4. bfactor bfactor is offline Server Clogger

    Posts: 22,135
    Joined: Sep 05

    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 2:34pm) in reply to emilypoker

    Hi emilypoker,

    I think your post is a great example of a problem that a lot of beginning players have. This is the problem of not fully understanding everything there is to know about things like:

    -variance
    -sample size
    -short-term
    -long-term
    -expectation

    Emily, basically what you have to understand is that although in the long run, your results will be determined by how well you play compared to your opponents, in the SHORT RUN (which is what we are dealing with in this case) your results are most influenced not by your skill, but how lucky or unlucky you got over that small sample size of play. This is because even the very best players have still only a relatively small edge over their opponents per hour, say an excellent player might average a 100% ROI on average per tourney over the course of his lifetime, however over a small sample of 10 tourneys or 100 tourneys or something, his results could be anywhere from strongly negative, to astronomically positive, depending on his short-term variance over the small sample.

    So basically, if after several THOUSAND 1-table sngs, and several THOUSAND mtts, you were still winning gobs of money consistently in the mtts, and losing gobs of money consistently in the 1-table sngs, THEN you could determine that msot likely you are in fact a better MTT player, than sng player

    However, if after just a few dozen, or even a few hundred 1-table sngs, and mtts you are doing way better in one than the other, this does NOT at all indicate that you are a way better _____ player than _______ player, it just means that you have onlya very small sample size right now, and short-term variance is the main factor so far, not skill, and that only after a much larger sample size willyou be able to see which you are really better at.

    If you want an even more thorough explanation of all this stuff, here is an article I wrote on the subject recently:

    http://www.pocketfives.com/EF629EC5-...B0E9C5173.aspx
  5. DeepRed2 DeepRed2 is offline

    United States

    Posts: 203
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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 2:41pm) in reply to emilypoker

    They are different animals, requiring different strategies.
  6. StIcKyFiNgErS StIcKyFiNgErS is offline

    Posts: 1,242
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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 2:42pm) in reply to bfactor

    you wouldn't have written all that if it wasn't for a chick
  7. bfactor bfactor is offline Server Clogger

    Posts: 22,135
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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 2:49pm) in reply to StIcKyFiNgErS

    heh heh

    Possibly true, but then again I am infamous for having one of the longest average-wordcount-per-post of any poster on pocketfives. Many OTers actually speculate I have THE longest awcpp of all. I think that was actually a shorter than average post for me. It's just how I write.
  8. wuwut666 wuwut666 is offline

    Toronto
    Canada

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 3:11pm) in reply to DeepRed2

    many good mtts players arent always good sng players.

    chipping up in sngs is far less important than in MTTs, where you play to win.

    play to win attitude doesnt work in sngs (unless ur at the bubble with all the chips and you destroy the rest of the field). get ur ass in the money before doing anything stupid.
  9. ace1won ace1won is offline

    Port Alberni
    Canada

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 3:38pm) in reply to wuwut666

    Your sharkscope shows you were a winning player with a decent ROI ...but it appears you tilted off some money playin the 100's before you were ready...plus your sample size is too small to conclude your long term expectation.
  10. sprstoner sprstoner is offline

    Posts: 1,343
    Joined: Feb 06

    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 4:35pm) in reply to emilypoker

    super tight early, super loose aggressive late... unless on the bubble and a super shorty exist, and you arent the chip leader.. then you wait him out. if blinds are to small, caompared to you stack dont risk you whole stack... be careful standard raising into a good player, that knows you have loosened up, he will push and make you fold.

    and play ftp
     
  11. Cmac Cmac is offline

    Gainesville, FL
    United States

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    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 6:05pm) in reply to emilypoker

    lol i was gonna post the same thing but didnt want to be the dick....if i made this post it would already be on page 4....but notice the in depth responses when "emily" posts lol
  12. U4KingJacAce U4KingJacAce is offline

    Kansas City, MO
    United States

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    Joined: Feb 06

    Oct 22nd, 2006 (10/22/2006 7:21pm) in reply to Ari

    Ari's right. If you have success in the MTT then you are probably taking a little more risk to chip up like you are suppose to do. The SnG startegy does not really call for chipping up and aggressive play in the middle level's IMO. Sound's like maybe you are pressuring to much in the SnG and trying to play them like a MTT.
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