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My cliff notes on the bot scandal at FTP

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  1. Zelk Zelk is offline

    Aberdeen, SD
    United States

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 4:40am)

    There is alot of information on 2+2 concerning bots at FTP. So I took the most important information and gathered it together for the community. This has the pictures of the stats, and the posts of the accused.

    The link is http://zelksblog.blogspot.com/

    - Zelk
  2. DoGGz DoGGz is offline

    San Lucas
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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 4:51am) in reply to Zelk

    Wow that post hardly can be descirbe as cliffnotes!
    338 
  3. Zelk Zelk is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 4:56am) in reply to Zelk

    I know, but I did cut out alot. I really tried to cut out alot. But since there is a lot of different stories being told by the accused. It warranted me posting almost all of the accused posts.
    Thread Starter
  4. geomeasure geomeasure is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 4:58am) in reply to Zelk

    i'm sorry man, i quit reading after about the tenth typo. i'm just picky like that.
  5. MBMD MBMD is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 4:59am) in reply to Zelk

    I lol'd, you really gotta erase "cliff notes" and put in "novel"
  6. Zelk Zelk is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 5:11am) in reply to Zelk

    I will go over it and look for typos again. Though I did not edit any of the direct quotes. So sorry there. Again, I know it is long, but there are 2000 replies between the two threads. So even narrowing it down to what I have was difficult. Thanks for the comments though guys.
    Thread Starter
  7. DexterCain DexterCain is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 5:21am) in reply to Zelk

    just tell us how it ends/ended please.
  8. Zelk Zelk is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 5:27am) in reply to Zelk

    At this point Dexter, so far all we have is FTPSean's reply

    FT conclusion is as follows.

    � During the investigation we found the evidence to be inconclusive in supporting either determination (human or bot).

    � After careful consideration, the evidence did not warrant the seizure of funds and permanent account closure.

    � We stand by our decision. Having said that, re-opening an account after an investigation such as this one does not mean we have made an irreversible decision. We will continue to reevaluate this situation.

    At this point, this all we have. A lot of people are upset the FT did nothing, especially considering the different stories the accused gave.
    Thread Starter
  9. DexterCain DexterCain is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 5:30am) in reply to Zelk

    ty, those are cliff notes.

    then link to your blog as an edited version of the original mess of a thread on 2+2. Your blog is much easier to follow than that was.
  10. Anonymous Anonymous is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 5:46am) in reply to Zelk

    Jungle Poker > Full Tilt
  11. I_Blade_U I_Blade_U is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 6:16am) in reply to Anonymous

    any1 gotta bot I can buy?
     1
  12. computerb computerb is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 11:50am) in reply to I_Blade_U

    I read the original in it's entirety. I love a good drama.
  13. TheWacoKidd TheWacoKidd is offline haters gonna hate

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 11:53am) in reply to computerb

    <table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#eeeedd"><td><table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top"> </td><td>Re(3): My cliff notes on the bot scandal at FTP
    by computerb on 5/13/2007 10:50 </td><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td><nobr> </nobr> </td><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td bgcolor="#ffffff">FYP </td><td colspan="2"><table celspacing="0" border="0" cellpadding="2"><tbody><tr><td>I read the original in it's entirety. I got nothing else to do.
    </td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
     1
  14. claude claude is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 12:29pm) in reply to Zelk

    unfortunately the people on this site are not taking u seriously. i'm on ftp but only play mtt when will the bots be arriving there? ftp should do something but it is not in their interest b/c the rake of the bots is huge. i am appalled that ftp hasn't done more. thankyou for the post
  15. ftpdoug ftpdoug is offline Official FTP Rep

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 12:33pm) in reply to claude

    We take it very seriously. If we closed the accounts and confiscated their money and they were the ones that started a thread, how many people would be screaming that we took action without having proof they are bots?

    We aren't sure either way, but based on their story and the fact they are being harrassed in chat to no end now and they are always there to respond, we think it's unlikely enough that they are bots to let them continue playing.
  16. David032389 David032389 is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 3:48pm) in reply to ftpdoug

    How can you say that? They are taking thousands of dollars from innocent recrational players, and are cheating to do it. Why don't you just deal them the nuts everyother hand and rigg it that way. This is sickening and it is going to prevent me from opening an account on fulltilt poker. pokerstars does stop bots and takes them seriously. The funds would be confescated and in the affected players accounts by now. I have only read like 1/4 of zelks notes and its been like an hour lol. I find this very interesting and ill keep reading.
  17. David032389 David032389 is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 4:19pm) in reply to David032389

    Yikes almost half way. When did all this occour? Like two weeks ago? Has it been resolveD?
  18. pariah pariah is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 6:10pm) in reply to ftpdoug

    roflmao @ anybody who sees this image and still concludes there's nothing suspicious going on...
  19. David032389 David032389 is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 6:35pm) in reply to pariah

    let alone the computers all lined up facing a central chair in his picture of "thier setup". This is sickeningly obvious, I am absolutley baffled that they are letting them keep playing. FTPdoug, how can you conclude they are not using bots with all of the evidence presented against them, thats poposterous. You may lose a few thousand dollars in rake but you would likely confiscate thier funds which would = tens of thousands. Asuming you would not give the funds back to the affected players.
  20. Zelk Zelk is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 8:24pm) in reply to ftpdoug

    FtpDoug thanks for coming in here and explaing FT's view. I know it can be tough to do your job. But what is stopping FT from just giving these guy the boot with their money? If they are truly just a group of guys playing a strict strategy that they play to perfection over thousands of hands, they can certainly do it on another site. Yes, I know that you hate to lose the business. Though by letting these guy play without any sort of penalty it seems like FT is cutting their nose to spite their face. I am sure you read the glaring contradictions in their stories, and at least understand that to me reading those contradictions it seems like they are hiding something. I appreciate FT for at least taking the time to get all the facts straight, but Doug you also should be aware of the premier bot site saying that FT does not hassle botters seriously.

    Thanks again Doug for taking the tme to respond,

    Zelk
    Thread Starter
  21. ftpdoug ftpdoug is offline Official FTP Rep

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 8:57pm) in reply to Zelk

    Zelk,

    I'll try not to comment too far over my head, as it's a Support issue and I'm not in Support. We considered letting them keep their funds but giving them the boot, just because whatever was happening was too weird for us, but we felt confident enough that they were humans playing that we felt we could let them play and continue to monitor the situation.
  22. pariah pariah is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 9:13pm) in reply to ftpdoug

    How does their post-investigation play compare to their pre-investigation play? They (supposedly) have a system they've all memorized and can play without any variation over 100k+ hands... are they still sticking to that now? Do they still continuation bet the turn 40% of the time? Attempt to steal blinds 20%?

    P.S -- I also think it's funny that 3 key stats are exactly what's recommending in a widely-circulated guide to SSNL. IE, your PFR % should be at least half your VPIP and att to steal blinds should be at least 20%. Notice they always stick with the lower because, in their owns words, they prefer a lower variance game.
  23. sorrybadbeat sorrybadbeat is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 9:40pm) in reply to pariah

    I know of one person that has over 30 accounts on ftp all running winholdem...I dont play on full tilt for this reason...I believe full tilt and pokerstars would do well to hire a company like punkbuster to monitor for third party cheats
  24. betbrett betbrett is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 10:18pm) in reply to sorrybadbeat

    My stats are very similar to that. I guess I am a bot too.
  25. sorrybadbeat sorrybadbeat is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 10:24pm) in reply to betbrett

    betbrett ...i dont think you read the article
  26. roachclips roachclips is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 10:46pm) in reply to betbrett

    Seriously, there's no way you read anything if you think it's that simple, bret.

    Such ignorance.
  27. pariah pariah is offline

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    May 13th, 2007 (5/13/2007 11:30pm) in reply to betbrett

    Post your full stats then, I want to see how similar "very similar" actually is.
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