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  1. <TABLE cellPadding=2 border=0 celspacing="0"><TBODY><TR><TD>By the way...

    Although I would have to consider what Zee did "cheating" I am pretty sure that what partypoker is doing is FAR more unethical than what Zee did...

    What partypoker should have done, if they wanted to be as ethical as they are trying to get their clients to be, would have been to withdraw all profits earned during unethical activity from his account and distribute evenly into the accounts of all the people entered in the tourneys that he cheated them in. For example...

    Say ZeeJustin earned 100,000 dollars total. Say 95,000 of this was earned without any unethical activity. Say 5,000 of it was earned unethically via entering multiple accounts in the same sng or mtt. They SHOULD withdraw 5,000 dollars from his account in this case and compensate the 5,000 among the cheated clients. They should NOT withdraw 100,000 dollars from his account and keep it, and then email him and say "hahaaa! gotchya fcker!!!!! weee!!!" which is pretty much what they did. Also keep in mind that you cannot say "hmm well that's great but how can they tell which money was made ethically and which money wasn't??" Well actually they CAN figure this out obviously, they caught him didn't they? They can see which tourneys/sngs he entered under more than one account and then tally up how much profit he earned in total in the one's he did that in.

    I think this is pretty obvious. Clearly partypoker is being just as unethical (in my opinion MORE unethical) than ZeeJustin with how they handled it.

    I think people need to realize that partypoker is "cheating" just as bad as some of the players they are trying to crack down on. It's very dissapointing regardless of which "side" you're on.
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
  2. To anyone who thinks a proposed lawsuit against the poker sites has any merit shows an obvious display of ignorance of the law and the legal system.

    It's their site, it's their rules, they can do what they like, how they like. Your only recourse is to not play.
  3. Why didn't these guy's just change their screen names, if they thought they had become too well known.

    PP lets you change your screen name every 6 momths. I'm not convinced that masking identity was the intent here, if it was, there was an easy, simple, within the rules way to do that.
  4. GANK OWNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  5. I think you're all nuts.

    I think we should all multi-account if we have the money. If it doesn't break a local law, (i.e. we don't go to jail for it) and we can make more money doing it, then we should do it.

    Life isn't fair, and until there is some way for online poker to disallow multi-accounts and colluding, then you're behind the curve if you're not doing it yourself. If they're doing it....yes, you should be too. This isn't about being moral, it's about making money. Stop kidding yourself otherwise. If I could have a device that let me see hole cards, I triple guarantee I would use it.

    Colluding, and multi-account reduces variance. It's something you SHOULD be doing. Not being mad at people for doing. It costs a little money, sure, but it's worth it.

    Plus, as currently set up, sites have a difficult time stopping you from doing it. If they catch you, what's the worst thing that happens?? They ban the account, and take the money. Big flippin deal.

    Shame on JJ, and Zee for not getting money out earlier. They didn't have proper bankroll mgmt. I hope you guys learn from this to 1. Not tell any "friends" what you're doing, or post it in blogs, and 2. Get money out quickly in order to guard against the site siezing the money.

    What we are not hearing on these boards are the many, many, many people that collude, and multi that actually don't make any money, and in fact, lose money.

    I think multi and colluding should become the norm. If the sites can't stop it, then you should take part.

    One of two things will happen:
    They will figure out a way to stop it, and make a level playing field.
    They won't stop it ever.

    Personally, I don't care. I've beaten colluders before, I've beaten players with multi's. You have too (you just don't know it). If they want to spend the money, then let them.

    Colluders have more info, yeah, but they STILL don't know what you have. Their only real advantage is dumping chips. That's really it. Knowing each others cards really only helps for folding (e.g. hey I have KT. I have T4. Oh, okay, I was going to play KT, but not now). Rarely does it come to play in outs on the flop (e.g. hey, didn't you fold a 4? yeah, so it's less likely he has the last 4).

    Plus, chip dumping is kinda hard not to detect. If one of the players has AA, and the other has KK, they still have to bet into each other. I agree with nothing in this entire post, and I'm wondering how many of you even read this far. Every moron knows that if you fold KK to a big raise in a SnG, it's going to make the site's job a lot easier in determine whether you were colluding with someone.
  6. Yeah, I folded KK just yesterday with a FLOP of A99, followed by an all in raise.

    i guess I need to wait for the poker police to take me away.
  7. lol i thought i was done with this thread but i had to comment on the bitchslap gank delivered to "that girl that writes in purple that allowed party to take her $5 in protest" hahahaha

    so, well done gank, that was beautiful
  8. I think I'll pay three buy-ins at this years WSOP and just run around to each table. And if I get moved to a table where I'm already at, I'll just pick up my phone and make a few calls. I think that should negate any unethical advantage. That's my plan.

    I think this is pathetic. And the fact that you try and make some justifications for you actions is laughable. I have no sympathy for you in regard to party's actions and, in fact, I'm very impressed with Party. pokerstars too, if Lee Jones confiscated your funds as I understand.
  9. Yes I agree that there is no way he was NOT paying attention to his other account AT THE SAME TABLES or dumping chips. If he has two different suited pocket cards that is a HUGE advantage and other combinations of this could effect the game extremely. I wonder if he will post anything on this PROFESSIONAL POKER PLAYER SITE ABOUT HOW HE CHEATED: http://www.zeejustin.com/ WHAT A PUTZZZ HE IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL JUST A CHEATER! HELL I CAN WIN A BRACLET IF I COULD SEE THE CARDS OF MORE THAN ONE PERSON = ZEEJUSTIN = PUTZ = CHEATER = BARRY BONDS! . Do you think that johhny chan or chris fregusion cheated there way to WORLD CHAMPIONS NO....do u think they cheated the ESPN SPORTS casters outta there clothes in the stip poker commerical?.....haha....NO! THAT IS Y THEY R PROFESSIONALS.....as someone said he is like BONDS or any other "STERIOD" CHEATING PRO if u can call them PROS....THEY ARE NOT PROFESSIONALS and NEVER should have been....THEY NEED AN EDGE TO WIN and will pay for there KNOWN MISTAKES!! WHAT A FREAKING LOSER!
  10. What is meant by "creating a second account for rakeback."?
  11. Hence the problem with gambling in an unregulated industry. Who knows what else is going on out there on these sites? I need to move to vegas so I can at least see the characrters that are taking my money. :)
  12. It is people like you that are going to put an end to online poker for honest Americans. You got everything you deserved in this matter.
  13. Lets keep it going! Soon to be the longest thread ever! Anyone find out if JJ's Grandma will be eligble for 2006 player of the year yet?
  14. "This rampage that partypoker is on will certainly not end with me. So whatever you do, be careful."

    Thank you for the word of warning. I will try my hardest not to play multiple names in the same tourney, so I don't suffer the same injustice you have faced.

    Pathetic!
  15. I was always careful to hide from the tourney director when I had my both of my accounts sitting at the same tables on party... like hunch over or pull my baseball cap down low. That usually works.
  16. Slightly edited for truth:

    <SPAN>Here is the email I got from partypoker yesterday morning:

    Dear Mr Bonomo,

    We received like 60,000 e-mails talking about how you were cheating, so we decided the amount of money the e-mailers (account holders) make us vs. the amount of money you make us compels us to investigate your ass.

    These are the accounts in question:

    ZeeJustin

    IBLUFFUOUT69

    jwilson55

    vapoker58

    mehsab

    greenb272

    You obviously used these in everything from SnGs to cash games, to MTTs. <SPAN> </SPAN>You benefited greatly from doing so.

    Not sure why you thought we wouldnt be able to tell that you had multiple accounts logged in at the same time from the same IP/System, and it seems that you didnt care to hide the collusion very well.

    First off, your money is gone.<SPAN> </SPAN>Its ours, and thank you.<SPAN> </SPAN>Can we do that?<SPAN> </SPAN>Obv.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>In addition, we would ask that you do not attempt to open any further accounts with our company, as these will be closed and any monies therein will be deemed forfeited.<SPAN> </SPAN>It will be very difficult for us to figure out if you do come back on if youre smart about itso if you decide to open accounts with uscould you at least not talk about it in your blog? <SPAN> </SPAN>

    Also, youre not going on the Cruise (obv).

    S_
    Manager</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>

    Yes, its true. I did use these accounts to enter multiple accounts in the same multi table tournaments. I have never done this in a tournament with less than 1,000 players.<SPAN> </SPAN>Okay, I have done it with less than 1,000, but most of the tournaments that I cheat in have more than 1,000 players anyhow. <SPAN> </SPAN>If they typically had less, I would still multi, its just, they typically have more than 1,000. <SPAN> </SPAN>So, I guess me saying that I didnt do it in tournaments with less than 1000 means practically nothing.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>
    I have been at the same table as myself. Enough said about that.<SPAN> </SPAN>I would tell you that I multi-table as a way to prevent myself from having an edge when Im at the same table as myself which makes it harder for me to collude with myselfhowever, you would know I was bullshitting because, after all, Im basically a kid genius and I could remember all my hole cards on TWENTY tables if I wanted to. <SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>Anyhow, what Party emailed me sucks.

    First of all, the accounts were NOT created solely for MTT use. <SPAN> </SPAN>They were created to give me an edge in EVERYTHING I played.<SPAN> </SPAN>Of course, this helped me to make large sums of money to play Sunday tournaments, and not care about calling an all in with 100 plus thousand chips with only Ace high. <SPAN> </SPAN>You wouldnt believe how much easier poker is when you dont have to worry about losing your buy in because you know youll just make it back later on that night. <SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN>

    <SPAN>
    N82 referred to a hack that let you open multiple Party clients. I have no clue how no one has mentioned this yet, but no such hack was necessary. This is important, so listen up.<SPAN> </SPAN>Maybe you too can take advantage of this!

    All you had to do was click the PartyPoker icon on your desktop very rapidly. If you did that, multiple clients would open up.

    Using this bug, I was able to play multiple accounts on the same computer at the same time. I would be in a step 5 on one name, while playing a mini step 5 on another, and no one would ever suspect that it was me.<SPAN> </SPAN>Easy money.

    All of the money that was seized from me was mostly from sitngo play, which kinda sucked.<SPAN> </SPAN>I know youre asking me, Why didnt you get the money out? <SPAN> </SPAN>Its not really that simpleI mean, if you have multiple accounts, and youre playing high dollar SnGs, tournies, etc, you have it spread out over all the accounts, it wasnt just in the ZeeJustin account. <SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN>

    <SPAN>
    The other accounts I used might not have had big MTT scores (not as many), but thats not really the point. <SPAN> </SPAN>They collectively helped me to make six figures.<SPAN> </SPAN>They collectively allowed me to make so much money that I could afford to make almost unreal calls in huge tournies because I knew Id make it back if I lost.<SPAN> </SPAN>They collectively allowed me to play against people in SnGs, for example, without them knowing my name.<SPAN> </SPAN>So, obviously, almost $100,000 was seized from my accounts. <SPAN> </SPAN>Makes perfect sense to anyone that this much would be taken.<SPAN> </SPAN>

    For those of you that feel safe because my money was taken, open up your eyes. This money will not be returned to the players in any way. PartyPoker is keeping it because they can, just like they did with JJProdigys $40,000, and just like they will do to you when you get caught.<SPAN> </SPAN>Im telling you this because I want to shift some of the dirty looks to Party instead of myself. <SPAN> </SPAN>

    I know what youre thinking right now, I wont get caught, because I didnt do anything wrong.<SPAN> </SPAN>Well, youre right.<SPAN> </SPAN>So, no comment.

    Party wouldnt be in business (worth billions) if they started taking peoples money for any reason at any time. <SPAN> </SPAN>Still, I dont like them for taking my money.

    Almost all of you have broken the rules at some point.<SPAN> </SPAN>Havent you?<SPAN> </SPAN>Please tell you have so I can feel better about myself.<SPAN> </SPAN>How many of you have created a second account for rakeback? Neither creating a second account nor receiving rakeback is allowed. Both are expressly forbidden. Maybe youll see things my way once all your money is seized for doing that. If Im a cheater, so are you.<SPAN> </SPAN>Of course, youre not as bad of a cheater, but youre still a cheater. <SPAN> </SPAN>All you rake-back-stealing-criminals.<SPAN> </SPAN>

    If you are a saint like CSC claims to be, kudos to you. You are in the minority, and are certainly upstanding citizens. I commend you on following Partys rules and not receiving rakeback. Most of us are too greedy to pass up money that easy.<SPAN> </SPAN>I think.<SPAN> </SPAN>I have no proof, and of course, 95 percent of you may not have multi-accounts, nor collude, but since I do it, I actually think that most of you do it too, and I just got caught. <SPAN> </SPAN>

    Furthermore, I would like to point out, that I did NOT break the rules.<SPAN> </SPAN>At least I hope you believe that.<SPAN> </SPAN>And, if you do, can we play heads up?

    5. True Identity and One Account.<SPAN> </SPAN>Now, this may not sound true at all, but Im going to give it a try:

    The name on your Account must match your true and legal name and identity and the name on your Account registration must match the name on the credit card(s) or other payment accounts used to deposit or receive monies in your Account. You are prohibited from holding more than one Account. If you have more than one (1) Account or Accounts in different names, then you must contact us immediately to have your Accounts managed so that you only have one (1). If you have lost your Account name or password, please contact us for a replacement.

    I have one account. That account is named ZeeJustin. My brother also has an account named Bernard61 (formerly jwilson55), and I have used that account quite often. No where in Partys rules does it say you cannot use someone elses account. Im sure many of you have used friends accounts before, and there is nothing wrong with this. People will often take over MTTs for friends that have unforeseen obligationsokay, did it work? <SPAN> </SPAN>Do you really follow my false logic?<SPAN> </SPAN>Im hoping you do, really I do. <SPAN> </SPAN>I mean, I didnt really violate rule 5, did I? <SPAN> </SPAN>(Stop laughing at me.)</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>Okay, I cant slip one past you, yeah I did violate Rule 5. <SPAN> </SPAN>Moving on

    I do think what Ive done is unethical, and I certainly regret doing it, however, I need to point out that no where in Partys rules is it stated that you cannot enter multiple accounts into the same tournamentof course, Im tricking you here. <SPAN> </SPAN>It doesnt say you can enter multiple accounts into the same tournament, because Party assumes that you will read rule number five where you cant create multiple accounts in the first place. <SPAN> </SPAN>So, therefore, they shouldnt have to write a rule 5a that says, If you violate rule number 5 by having multiple accounts, you cant enter those multiple accounts in a tournament. <SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>So, lets say I violate rule 5, and the new rule 5a, to open multiple clients on the same PC, all you have to do is click the icon a bit more rapidly than normal. Great work PartyPoker.<SPAN> </SPAN>But, now that Ive actually alluded to it in this post, maybe theyll do something about it. <SPAN> </SPAN>

    To further show how much I hate PartyPoker for doing their job, here is an email I got today from my affiliate manager.

    Dear Justin,

    We hereby give you notice that we are terminating our Standard Affiliate Agreement (the Agreement) with you. Clause 5.3 of the Agreement states that we are entitled to terminate our Agreement without cause immediately upon this written notice to you. We will also be exercising our right under clause 5.3 to terminate all trackers that you have with us.<SPAN> </SPAN>Doesnt this suck?

    We ask that you familiarize yourself with clause 5.5 of the Agreement which sets out the effects of termination. We require you to stop promoting our Site and you are no longer entitled to use our Marketing Materials. We also remind you that the obligation of confidentiality and non-disclosure shall, amongst other things, survive the termination of the Agreement.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>The truth is, we would love to keep you dude.<SPAN> </SPAN>You make money for us. <SPAN> </SPAN>But, we got 60 trillion e-mails about you, and we HAD to do something about. <SPAN> </SPAN>As a result, we want to completely distance ourselves from you. <SPAN> </SPAN>

    Yours sincerely

    PartyGaming

    S_
    Affiliate Relations

    PartyGaming Marketing (UK)

    www.partygaming.com

    This email is sent by PartyGaming Marketing (UK), a provider of services to PartyGaming Marketing (Gibraltar). The contents of this email may be subject to approval by an authorized representative of PartyGaming Marketing (Gibraltar).

    The information contained in this email, and any attachments hereto, is strictly confidential and solely intended for use by the individual(s) and/or entity(s) to which it is addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify the System Manager at admin@partygaming.com as soon as possible. <SPAN> </SPAN>If, at any time you edit this document, then none of this applies because its completely made up, and means nothing. <SPAN> </SPAN>

    I have broken the affiliate agreement in every way shape and form, so PartyPoker is using good old clause 5.3 to stop paying me simply because they should. If this makes you feel safe, you are being completely logical. It can and will happen to more people, this I guarantee. Youre not safe at all (if you cheat).<SPAN> </SPAN>

    In conclusion, I want to make it clear that I kind of regret what I did, and have done some things that were highly unethical. PartyPokers actions are reasonable, and their power to take the same actions against you should not be taken lightly (if you cheat too, like I did). This public relations damage control mission that PartyPoker is on will certainly not end with me. So whatever you do, do not cheat.</SPAN>
  17. ^^ lol ^^
  18. i am somewhat new to online poker and i am only a winning player when sober. this multi account crap is all news to me and might just make me quit playing online. does this shit go on at all the sites ??

    i GUESS i kinda respect zee for coming clean about what he did, at the same time, i hope he put back enough to pay for a bodyguard. i personally know that if i ever run into him after a few cocktails, i will end up reaching back like a pimp and slapping the little bitch.

    i play in mostly sngs and im sorry if i am a bit upset at all of this. i knew there had to be some kind of cheating going on but i guess i just didnt want to know it.

    zee - like i said... i hope u put back enough to hire a bodyguard when u play live games.
  19. It all depends on how often you are sober..
  20. he left one part out of his statement ... wasn't he supposed to say "I turned 6 tables over to my GRANDMA to play hoping this would negate my unethical advantage?"
  21. "Glad he came clean.." Dude, that rat got pinched! He did not come clean, he got busted. Hope he is careful when playing at live events, I have a couple buddies that would like to Bitch slap him like the bitch he is.

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