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NL Cash Game Advice

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  1. UCBananaboy UCBananaboy is offline

    Posts: 3,947
    Joined: Jan 06

    Feb 8th, 2006 (2/8/2006 11:44pm)

    Ok, I'm not sure if this is a commonly discussed thing, but could some of the NL cash game experts provide some key advice to doing well?

    There was a point in time when I was tearing up the sngs (played in 500 over the course of November and cashed in nearly 77%). Then I moved to cash games. I did very well at the .25/50 level, then suddenly one day it seemed like everything crumbled. I wasn't able to avoid any of the huge hands where I would have boat vs. bigger boat, or someone chasing a flush. So could the consistent cash game players provide some advice?

    Should biggest "value" bets be made on the turn?
    How willing are you to chase draws? Do you consider implied odds more or just pot odds?
    Do you play looser in cash games vs. early stages of mtt?
    Do you always add-on to ensure that you have the max amount at the table?

    Anything else would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

    UCB
  2. igotmadbeetz igotmadbeetz is offline

    Cincinnati, OH
    United States

    Posts: 306
    Joined: Jan 06

    Feb 9th, 2006 (2/9/2006 12:41am) in reply to UCBananaboy

    When I am playing, I add on once I lose 1% of my stack, aka every time I dip below the max buyin. This allows you to play comfortably, and not feel limited with a small stack. Also allows you to gain maximum value with your hands. I play extremely LAG, but I also play short-handed cash games, not full ring. Implied odds are huge, and I play my big draws aggressively. Implied odds are much more important than pot odds in NL. hope this helps, gl
  3. Smyythe Smyythe is offline

    Victoria
    Canada

    Posts: 98
    Joined: Oct 05

    Feb 9th, 2006 (2/9/2006 12:50am) in reply to UCBananaboy

    1. The type of bet you make, be it "value" or otherwise is more than likely going to depend on the texture of the board (be it at the flop, turn, river). I would say its nearly impossible to link a value bet to a specific street.

    2. Pot odds and implied odds should both be weighted equally, although one or the other will inevitably be more important in any given hand, depending on the situation. The good thing about cash games are that these things are usually pretty cut and dry. Pot odds can be calculated simply, and decisions made based on mathematical probability and long term expectation. Implied odds are a little tougher, since you have to take the other players tendencies into account.

    3. Cash games and the earlier stages of an MTT are basically exactly the same since the relationship between blinds and stack size are very similar. From what I understand you can basically use cash game and early MTT strategy interchangeably. A main idea of both would be seeing cheap flops looking to "stack" people.

    4. Not sure what you mean by add-on. Many sites allow you to go allin and then "rebuy" for the buyin amount, giving you two buyins (assuming you don't lose the pot in which you are allin). You should be looking to buyin for 100x the big blind in general, and after that I would say you can just leave it up to the actual poker and not worry about extra buyins, "rebuy glitches", etc.

    Might be a little vague, such is the nature of poker, but hopefully helps somewhere. GL in the cash games.
  4. AceRunner AceRunner is offline

    Thailand

    Posts: 3,722
    Joined: Nov 05

    Feb 9th, 2006 (2/9/2006 12:52am) in reply to igotmadbeetz

    You are going to go through bad runs. The %'s will even out eventually.

    some advice:
    -like above, I try to keep 90% of max at all times, even if I have to add on many times due to losing hands, whatever.
    -PLAY SUPER TIGHT at the low limits. To put it in perspective, I play J10, Q10s,A10s and above for non-pair hands. no medium sooted connectors. You want to be playing opposite of your table, and they are all playing sooted junk most likely.
    -I use implied odds if I feel I will get payed off. make sure when calling a raise at any point you are playing against someone who's stack is big enough to pay you off if you hit your hand. many low stakes players have much less than the max, and don't provide correct odds for a lot of hands to be played against them HU.
    -Find those that I like to term as "Free Money" and target them. At these limits you will see people who are playing crazy, and you want to get their money before someone else does. You might lower your starting hand standards to adjust if they keep raising with junk, and are willing to get all in on the flop with Ace high or bottom pair. today I saw someone call my all in on the flop with ace high and no draw after I had re-raised pre flop and pushed the flop. Figure out who these players are.
  5. UCBananaboy UCBananaboy is offline

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    Feb 9th, 2006 (2/9/2006 9:00am) in reply to Smyythe

    Yeah, I guess I also forgot to ask how much you guys gamble on your draws?

    I was watching Dags the other night, and the guy calls a $4K reraise into a 2K pot with 5-5 on a board of 4-6-7. Now is this the common play (to play these this aggressively?) I have also seen these types of aggressive pays for draws from Dustin Dirksen on FTP, Riparian, and a few others. They all seem to be extremely successful in cash games, so it makes me wonder if maybe I was playing too conservative on my draws.
    Thread Starter
  6. godseyt godseyt is offline

    Hilliard, OH
    United States

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    Feb 9th, 2006 (2/9/2006 9:51am) in reply to UCBananaboy

    Should biggest "value" bets be made on the turn?

    It depends on how disciplined a player you are and how well you read other players. Ideally you want to bet enough to get a call, yet giving the opponent incorrect pot odds to call. The key though is getting away from your hand if the opponent hits their draw (in essence giving them no implied odds). Obviously it depends on the situation, but alot of times I will throw a smaller value bet on the flop. If the turn appears to be a safe card, then I will push harder on my turn bet. The idea being that the pot is already decent size and I would like to take it down right there without seeing another card. If the player calls anyway and the river appears to miss the draws, then I will bet small again in efforts to extract more money. If the river brings a scare card, I would have no problem checking behind. If the player bets the river after the scare card comes, then I would go into the tank and replay the hand in my head taking everything into account.

    How willing are you to chase draws? Do you consider implied odds more or just pot odds?

    If I feel I have 10-15 outs, then I play it pretty aggressively. If I am looking at 8 or 9 outs, then it depends. The key here is how well is your hand disguised? Am I just drawing to the nut flush or do I have 57 suited on a flop of 4 6 A? If you are just drawing to the nut flush, then I usually only take the pot odds into account since most decent players will not put much more money into the pot if the board completes the flush. In the 57 example, I put much more emphasis on the implied odds since at least one player in the hand is likely to have his ace paired. That means if a beautiful 3 or 8 comes, I am very likely to extract a nice amount.

    Do you play looser in cash games vs. early stages of mtt?

    Personally, I play a tighter game in MTTs. I will splash around a little bit in the early stages of a MTT, but not nearly to the extent of a cash game. I think part of that is because I play short-handed cash games, so by default I have to tighten up a bit in MTTs that are playing 9 or 10 handed.

    Do you always add-on to ensure that you have the max amount at the table?

    I always buy in for the max and reload if I bleed off more than 10% of my stack.

    TJ
  7. KJatl KJatl is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

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    Feb 9th, 2006 (2/9/2006 1:11pm) in reply to UCBananaboy

    If you double or triple up in a small time frame, I would quite while I was ahead and move to another table. Frequently I see players that 'overstay their welcome'. They peek at around 2-3 times the buy-in, then they loosen up and call down with worse hands and eventually either go bust or stop playing when they're down. I see 'big stacks' of 50-80$ all the time in the .10/.25 ring games, but almost never see anything higher than that.
  8. FSKGB FSKGB is offline

    Webster, NY
    United States

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    Feb 9th, 2006 (2/9/2006 1:32pm) in reply to KJatl

    This last piece of advice is good, but only if you start playing looser (read: worse) when you get a big stack. I often do this, getting a big stack and then calling with trash (not just suited connectors, but unsuited connectors and absolute junk) hoping for some kind of 'magic flop'. When I notice this, I will usually leave the table and start over at another. However, if you are at a good table full of donks and are able to maintain your discipline, stay there as long as you can! It feels great leaving a table with 10+ times your buyin.
  9. Wrongshui Wrongshui is offline

    Austin, TX
    United States

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    Feb 9th, 2006 (2/9/2006 3:42pm) in reply to UCBananaboy

    One of the biggest ways I make money, is by pretending I was drawing to a hand.

    I.E. I flop a set, generally I go check/call. Turn, they bet again, I raise a bit to keep them in the hand, and look like Im stealing generally a minbet or a little bit more. And I go all in on the river... This is most effective with a draw that missed.

    Play your strong hands like a draw, and the donks at that level WILL pay you off.
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