[Greek]

Rank Gross PLB Score No. of Accounts used in each tournament Actual PLB
Score

1. 8563 3 2544.33

2.

3.

This would be more accurate at least.

[dgoldberge]

I am very disturbed, and confused, as to how anyone, including top players here, can say that there is a big difference between the 2, and multi-accounting is much worse than buying someone's account late in the tourny.

If someone busts out of a tourny, and later buys someone else's, how is that any different then starting with two accounts?

If I buy someone's account in the 2nd level, for slightly more than the buyin, is that better (morally) than entering the tourny w/ a 2nd screenname?

Someone please explain this to me and everyone else here who wants to get rid of the gray area.

[TheMayor]

I'm disturbed, and, confused, as to, how anyone, including unknown lurkers, and random posters here, can continue to think, that anyone wants to read any more threads, on this topic, when everything has, already been said, in the first fifty.

Please please can we just wait till the weekend when the imp givse his interview and then we can start spamming the crap out of the boards again with the same opinions and questions repeated over and over.

PS: Here are some extra commas- , , , , ,,,,,, ,, , ,,,,,,,

[cave]

It is multiaccounting. Quite simple.

And multiaccounting was what ChrisBluffMag was banned for. Not even a grey area imo.

[YoudontKnow]

Sorry all this imp stuff shouldnt be news to anyone. This has been going on for a long time. All done by players you all love . Chat on aim , buying accounts deep, or just helping your buddy been happening for a long time. YTIU . JJ, AJ, Mantis , Waco, bkice,,,etc etc etc. There all losely connected in some way. And there always adding new talent to the stable. If your playing a big buy in deep your going to end up playing aganst some top talent you know and some top talent you know got knocked out. There is just no way around this. Waco proves his everytime someone post by saying " Oh yeah i knew this or that but i dont condone it" Sorry ladies and gents the proverbial deck is stacked against you in so many ways its quit or play live. Internet poker is the modern day riverboat, where the unsuspecting mark is just going to get fleeced. And just like the old days when the captain was getting his cut, the site are getting theres. Im not saying the sites are in on it but theres little they can or will do. As long as that rake keeps churning away they have no incentive to actually do very much. Once in a a while they change results because they want it to look like they are trying, and i think they are, but if the rake is churning out profit they can afford to give some back to player to try and keep it honest. I mean what good manager is going to sacrifice millions in rake per week . If they have to lay out a couple hundred grand to tourney entrants to protect there millions in rake they do it. This keeps players thinking if they are colluded against the site wil take care of it , if they catch it. Basically the average guy needs to create his own collusion group or quit online poker. NOW YOU KNOW

[jalman1]

[DrinkingProblem]

Thanks for the breaking news.

[computerb]

Please to put all your miscellaneous cheating ramblings in this thread. Thank you.

Mods this is the address: 11ACF55C-AB54-47BA-9775-B43D0B3131DD

[YoudontKnow]

Not trying to give you breaking news just that the problem is much bigger then you think. Thanks for your great response

[dgoldberge]

Ironic, that you were the first to read and reply to the thread. If you don't want another thread, don't reply and sent it to the top.

And my thread has nothing to do w/ Imp, so no need to wait for his response.

But in all these threads for months, many top players are claiming that it's "wrong, but not as bad," to buy another account as opposed to multi-account. It's the same exact thing. The only difference is at what point your 2nd account enters the tournament.

[jalman1]

a stupid thread deserves a stupid response

[kdogpenny1]

im gonna say it cuz i know someone else will.

dont worry about getting better, just get deep and sell your acct. Problem solved.

[Rushstreet07]

The real problem is that most peole who play online have zero idea this is going on... its really just 2+2 and P-5s members who are aware.

I know for 100 % certainty that there are some major non-poker affiliated media outlets who are taking information from these threads and doing an investigation of online poker (including Absolute poker and every other thread that discusses cheating). Its only a matter of time before "cheating in online poker" is the feature of some prime time investigative reporting television show. Once the news of cheating in online poker goes mainstream, you can be certain that it will be 100 times harder for Congress to legalize online poker.

In addition, the fish who play but don't pay attention to P-5s and 2+2 etc etc will finally have the excuse to quit online poker all together. They will realize they have been cheated (even if in reality they are small stakes players or never had a chance anyway and probably not cheated)... this is the excuse the fish need to quit playing online - they will be able to rationalize their losses and give up on trying to improve because "online is crooked". The fish leave and the poker economy continues to dry up. The poker econonoy continues to dry up - more people feel the pressure to cheat to get ahead. Its a slippery slope and is going to kill online poker.

Those people who defend their "friends" who are "good guys" even though they cheated are idiots. Its truly sad to watch this train wreck unfold. You people need to see the bigger picture here and not focus on the individual cases of cheating. Taken as a whole, it is the beginning of the end of online poker. The only hope for online poker is for someone (in the know) to be courageous enough and provide full disclosure of the TRUE extent this is going on - provide an opportunity for open and honest discussion and allow the major sites to take appropriate steps to prevent this as best they can. It makes me sick when some of these "top players" come on here and rationalize and defend other top players cheating and their behavior. Kudos to the top players who have the courage to say they are outraged by all this.

To people like Daut, Inisint, and anyone else coming to the defense of their cheating "friends":

If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem. GTFO cause you are ruining online poker for everyone. Take your money and go home. Some of us (most of us) want online poker to be legalized and regulated - people like your friends (whom you choose to defend) are making the prospects for legalized online poker within the US more difficult than ever.

Its only a matter of time before the main stream media starts bashing online poker like never before. Thanks a lot to all the greedy thieves who are ruining it for the rest of us.

[timeofneed]

Im sorry for further cluttering this board with posts on the same topic, but i too am an attention whore, and want more people to hear my opinion then if it was at the bottom of a poker discussion board.

To everyone who thinks that cheating is preventable, it isnt. As long as there is money to be made, and ways to make it easier from cheating, it will be done. To think that there is any way a site can prevent it is foolish. Sites can lessen it to an extent, but people will continue to find new ways to cheat. What is cheating? Who defines what the rules are, and what the rules arent? Is it the religous right? The general consensus? Everyone has a different idea of what it is, and for that reason some people dont think that cheating is "cheating". This isnt strictly a poker phenomenom, it is in all walks of life. If you can gain and edge from cheating, it will be done. I had an english teacher who once told me, "If you are not cheating, you are not trying, and if you get caught, your not trying hard enough." Now i cannot say that I agree with him, but to an extent that is a valid point. How many of you guys cheated in high school? Did you never just copy someone elses busy work? Does that make you a bad person if you did? You can justify anything to yourself as not being wrong. Look at Barry Bonds, Enron, Bill Clinton, Haliburton, etc. They all cheated, and will continue to cheat. Its a political type of thing. If you think anyone gets in it without having alterior motives you are crazy, and wrong.

There is such a gray area in poker, when it is unregulated and in your home. Lets look at this example. You live with a poker player, your mom calls you and tells you that your grandma died, you are on 8 tables. You ask your roommate to take over on his laptop for about 20 minutes while you talk to your mom. Is that cheating? What if he is in one of the same tourneys? Is that wrong? Can he not help you there? What if instead you call a friend who is not playing and he plays for you? Is that cheating? What about 2 players in a room, one of which is not in the tourney. He helps you out and tells you what to do....cheating? What about ghosting? Ghosting is a common practice. There is no one player per hand rule. There will never be a 1 player per hand rule, nor should there be. What is the difference between coaching, and ghosting and practically playing for a person? I have won tourneys for my friends simply by telling them how to play everyhand. I often get a kickback. I think that it is completely ignorant to not expect someone deep in a tourney to be getting help. I also think that it is ignorant not to get help if needed. I remember Seal offers to ghost people for tourneys. You pay him, and he helps you. Does that make Seal immoral? He seems like one of the most standup guys you will ever meet in a poker forum. Ghosting is common pratice. If your deep in a tourney and you dont expect it to be used against you, frankly, your crazy. I think of the Plattsburgh example. Some people were so outraged, and all the while i was thinking...."huh"? What is wrong with people to think that is not happening, and even more so what is wrong with people to think that is wrong to do. There is aim, there is msn, there is stuff where you can watch someone elses screen. In a perfect world would i want it...probably not, but in this world to have a problem with it is crazy. While we are at it, then why dont we call it cheating that people get advice on how to play a hand after the hand was played? Thats the same thing, they are gaining an advantage that they no longer would have had. Or how about its cheating to smoke marijuana since it is a performance enhancing drug in terms of long tourney sessions.

I can hear all the old people now. Rabble Rabble, kids these days no morals. "Show me one cheater over 30 rabble rabble rabble." How about go to work and look at who you work for. The world is run by cheaters. The people who cheat are gonna constantly fuck over the people that dont. It all depends on what you can live with. Adjust or GTFO. The difference between winners and losers is that winners do whatever it takes.

"Only a fool lets a fool keep his money"

[timeofneed]

honestly i dont think i am the only person who feels this way, just tha tmost people are too scared to say it

[threeven]

honestly you could have just put this in one of the other damn threads

and you may overestimate your importance

[Stupor_Mundi]

No, you're not.

[rocket5]

honestly threeven go fuck yourself. like your higher than almighty. he made a legit point by saying if he put it in a thread it would not have been read. although i don't agree with all points. i agree with some.

cheaters suck and have ruined online poker. i hope all you young fuck cheaters go broke when you have no idea where to invest your money anymore that there are no more plus ev fish(sometimes honest players that dont have the resources to CHEAT and collude with other talents) that refuse to play anymore because of cheating scum that play online. alkfjdsl;kjadsflksdjflkdsjf;ladskfjdsa;lkfjdsa;lfk jdsaf;lkdsajf;ldsakfjsda;lkfjdsa;lkfjsda;lkfjsda;l fk

[DrinkingProblem]

Paragraph 3 is huge.

[warden]

i laughed :)

[willcutyou]

Good post sir, a lot of valid points. Although almost everything you say is very opinionated and very possible quite correct, at the same time, the issue you are addressing is not really a poker issue. The idea that human beings are immoral in some way or another - as true as it may be - really has nothing to do with poker. If you want to continue on this point, do it under Off Topic posts, not under Poker Discussion.

[Greek]

This is a public forum so anyone should be "important" enough to start a thread. What makes a person "important" here, winning MTT's? Big deal if you used 5 accounts in the same tournament to do it.

I find it laughable that some "important" players who were held in such high esteem were later found to be multi-accounters:

ZeeJustin
JJProdigy
Zangzeban (alleged).

[rocket5]

But he is such a nice guy. How many times have we heard that? As far as I know anyone can make any post they want and the MODS can do whatever they want with it.

Can we get a MODS list BTW. Just curious. Was Imp ever a MOD? LOLLLLLLLLLLLzzzzzzzzzzzzz. He is such a nice guy and respected member of this joke of a community.

[timeofneed]

well i think it is poker related in most regards. I just think that people, no matter what will cheat. That is inevitable. Bad...yes....but inevitable also. I think that people need to quit bitching about it and adjust. Especially when what some call cheating, others dont think is. I ghost people often for a fee of what they return. When i say ghost, i mean tell them exactly how to play everyhand. Am i wrong?

[TheWacoKidd haters gonna hate]

mods have badges in their profiles, check mine for an example... Imp was never a mod...

if you think this community is joke then GTFO... trust me, you will not be missed

[I_Blade_U]

hey rocket5 gtfo.... who are u and y should ppl listen 2 u...ur a clown and u attack ppl for no reason at all cuz ur a lowstakes loser

edit* never tell threeven 2 fuck himself

[showtime90]

stop making threads if you get pissed off that we bump them ( or would let them go back down)

too many fkin threads people, its getting WAY out of hand here

[King7Seven]

The more it goes the less I trust online poker...
(And I am usually the first one to dismiss the claims that online poker is rigged...)

I am watching the replay from the pokerstars $530 Sunday million, after checking the stats of the guys who finished 1st and 2nd, I am kind of scratching my head as to what's going on there :
- G0T T!LT? : he used to play only $3 and $5 tourneys and then in the past 3 months he only plays >$200 tourneys. And he final tables the Sunday millions 2 weeks in the row...
Most of the best player out there have never made an appearance at the final table of the sunday million and very few have managed to get there twice in the same year ! and this guys manages to get there two weeks in a row...
I don't know what are the odds of that but just thinking about it is going to make my head explode...

- Tommy2tyme : apparently this was the first tournament ever played by that username, another case of multi-accounting ?

Bots, multi-accounting, ghosting, Absolute Poker this is really sad...

I really enjoy playing online poker but I see more and more troubling stuff going on and I am really close to quitting...

I know this has been discussed a lot before but I know that I am not the only one feeling like this. This industry needs some sort of regulation and higher standards, there is just too much money at stake.

[RonKarkovice]

*sigh*

first

[TiltinShoes]

*unsigh* second.

Looks fishy, but flukes do bhappen honestly...