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ok, here's a spot in the 22r

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  1. NSXT2 NSXT2 is offline

    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    United States

    Posts: 2,339
    Joined: Feb 05

    Aug 23rd, 2007 (8/23/2007 1:27am)

    I think it's an easy spot but what do you guys think.... Ari was at table, tell me what you think Ari pls.

    Deep, maybe 10-20 from money... I have 48k in chips and blinds are 1600.

    UTG, shoves all in (first hand at this level after the break) for 9700. 4 seat flat calls. He has 50k chips (same as me, barely covers me) I am on button with AKo.

    As the hand started, I immediately thought, I will flat call this... the sb and bb were the big stack, both over 85-90k.... Once the 4 seat guy flatted, i instantly thought to fold... My friend sitting on my couch talked me into shoving (not saying who).... so I shoved trying to get a fold and getting 4 seeat's dead money in and I'd be headsup vs a player who's range I was certainly ahead of....

    I immediately regretted the shove and here's my thinking... and the same thinking for folding pre that I initially had....

    I am thinking that a guy flat calling there with 5 to act behind him including the big stacks, his range was AQs+ and 99+

    So, if that is true, of those hands, which will fold to a shove? I'd say the AQ and the 99, MAYBE the TT....

    So i am shoving over someone that will only fold 2 maybe 3 of the 8 hands he could have to a shove and whatever calls me, even if it's a flip is stupid. I just have way too many chips to take a flip here.....

    I think i made a horrible shove. What do you guys think?
     
  2. Davidp18 Davidp18 is offline

    Toledo, OH
    United States

    Posts: 190
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    Aug 23rd, 2007 (8/23/2007 2:00am) in reply to NSXT2

    I def think this is a shove. I think his calling range is wider than what u gave him since the shover only has 6 bbs and is shoving a huge range. I can see him flatting with 77, AT, A9, and maybe a couple other hands, so hes gonna fold a lot of the time u shove. Even if he calls with JJ ur not in bad shape at all and have a race with the 9700 extra from the shover out there.
     
  3. Squirrely1 Squirrely1 is offline

    Louisville, KY
    United States

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    Aug 23rd, 2007 (8/23/2007 2:02am) in reply to Davidp18

    Don't mind it at all.
     
  4. YourTimeIsUp YourTimeIsUp is offline

    Orange, CT
    United States

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    Aug 23rd, 2007 (8/23/2007 2:04am) in reply to Davidp18

    Even with thhe ranges you gave the cold caller, and his calling ranges of your shove, i'm pretty sure it is still a shove.
    1
  5. Ari Ari is offline

    Toronto
    Canada

    Posts: 3,147
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    Aug 23rd, 2007 (8/23/2007 2:06am) in reply to NSXT2

    barring reads, easy shove. Of course w/ alot of the hypre aggresive players on stars, u gotta be real careful when they call here, bec. theyre reshoving/reraising w/ all good hands, but flatting w/ monsters. but readless i shove all day here. (I'm about 80% sure i rem this hand, but i tried not to be result oriented)
    155 21
  6. NSXT2 NSXT2 is offline

    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    United States

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    Aug 23rd, 2007 (8/23/2007 2:24am) in reply to Ari

    ok, thanks guys but my point here.... what is he calling me with that i am in good shape against? 1 hand...... AQ. I dont think that A9 or AT flat call there with 5 behind... in sb or bb, hell ya, i call the utg with as low as KQ and def A9 etc but with so many behind him, i gave him a much tighter range. Then, if i give a tight range, why push? Ya, I did it but didnt like it.

    This one is a bit different, did what many think is right but not sure i see why it's good. Again, I just think i had too many chips to risk. I understand that that also means he can't call my shove with anything but a very tight group but.....

    side note, I make this play often as we all do, its just the stacks, action and position of caller that make it a bit different....the flat caller had too many behind him to make calling with AT AJ profitable (although I know many are just clueless and do it anyway thinking they are ahead of utg)
     
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  7. Squirrely1 Squirrely1 is offline

    Louisville, KY
    United States

    Posts: 418
    Joined: Apr 06

    Aug 23rd, 2007 (8/23/2007 2:36am) in reply to NSXT2

    You're not getting called with anything that you are beating(unless he's terrible), but you're isolating against the early position raiser, who you probably are ahead of. Flat calling here is a big mistake, IMO. What do you do if one of the blinds tries to pull off a huge squeeze? If you were going to call a big reraise with AK after putting about 1/4 of your chips into the pot, why not just shove it in?
     
  8. darkcheck_ darkcheck_ is offline

    Costa Rica

    Posts: 5,007
    Joined: Jan 06

    Aug 23rd, 2007 (8/23/2007 2:38am) in reply to NSXT2

    how bout what is he calling you with period. seems like an ez shove to me and he could easily be flatting this kid with AJ/AQ 66-TT which if he has 50k stack at this point its extremely likely hes folding those hands to ur shove , depending on player may even fold JJ if its some weak nit

    i dunno i guess it wasnt a good result but seems like a pretty standard shove when theres ~25k dead $ in the pot when u make your shove
     
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