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  1. Whats the best starting hand?
    And why?

    Nearly all pots are won with big hands (straight,flush etc.) so id assume big drawing hands go up in value?
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  2. <SPAN>From what Todd Brunson calls the Platinum rule of any Hi/LO game: SCOOPING.

    Any opening hand that can produce a NUT high and NUT low are the best.

    Statistically, AA23 double suited is the best </SPAN><SPAN>Omaha</SPAN> <SPAN>HI</SPAN><SPAN>/LO you can start with, but </SPAN><SPAN>Omaha</SPAN><SPAN> isn't like Hold’Em in that the merit of your starting hand can allow you to play ignorant up until the river. You need to play each betting round correctly, because </SPAN><SPAN>Omaha</SPAN><SPAN> is a game about the draw, not about the made hand.

    My suggestion would be read up on the game. Learn how to play most situations correctly, and then ask questions with specific parts of your game you're having trouble with, because opening hand requirements are important in </SPAN><SPAN>Omaha</SPAN><SPAN>, but the draw is what defines the game.

    As for why, Pairs, two pair, and trips, just don't hold up in omaha because of the magnitude of possibilities that four card hands can give 10 players. It's often the best possible hand that wins in omaha, which is rarely true in hold'em.</SPAN>
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  3. NIURAT is right on the money. Usually anything containing an A2 is playable but you would prefer another low card and something suited with the ace. Big hands are okay to try and catch a flop cheaply but they aren't worth alot preflop. A dry pair of aces is playable but don't raise unless you can severely limit the field, and realise that if you miss the flop with your aces you are often beaten.

    The best book on the game in my opinion is Mike Capelleti's &quot;How to Win at Omaha&quot;. The title might be slightly off, I'm not at home next to my bookcase right now. Cloutier and McEvoy's Omaha book is also very good. If you study both books you'll easily beat most any game online. The Wilson Turbo Omaha software is also quite good, more useful than their Hold Em software is in my opinion. Check out www.wilsonsoftware.com for the Turbo software.

    There is a free trial to beta test Poker Tracker's new Omaha Tracker, and a buddy of mine who has been using says it works very well so you might want to check that out too at pokertracker.com.
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  4. I totally agree with the book suggestion. Mike Cappelletti is the man when it comes to Omaha hi/lo. The title is How to Win Omaha High-Low Poker. He also releases a fair amount of omaha hi/lo stuff in card player.

    Another good read is High-Low Split Poker by Ray Zee. The omaha section is the second book in the binding.
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  5. A2AK

    suits dont matter...
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  6. <SPAN>I'm going to quickly mention the two dangers of having A2 without protection (another card below a five).

    COUTERFEITED: This happens quite a bit, and it's better to have a backdoor then to have to muck.

    QUARTERING: Every clown will be in there with just there A2. I perceive A2 is the naked ace of </SPAN><SPAN>Omaha</SPAN><SPAN> hi/lo. If you’re in a three or four way pot and there's a lot of action, and an A2 is the nut low, <SPAN> </SPAN>be the call station to try to slow them down because you are probably quartering this pot with someone else.

    There is some strategies that suggest capping it in tournaments if the pot contains four or more people because with more then four people, you will profit (just not much) and with four you will niether gain nor lose, but redistribute chips, which increases your standings. In a cash game it could be used to "discriminate" against a player you would either like to see leave, or who just plays a terrible low stack. But that's for an entirely different post.</SPAN>
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  7. point taken...thank you.
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  8. This wasn't pointed at you supermoves. I respect what you have to say, and agree with you most of the time. There really is no point in argueing which hand is better (AA23 or A2AK) because you're going to play them both.

    There was a lot of talk about A2 from both Fox and you, and I wanted there to a WARNING: CONTENTS MIGHT BE HOT! on that A2.

    I'm just confused when I see players call me down with A222, and A333, both of which I've witnessed call down in big raised pots, when their lows weren't the nuts.
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  9. Well, I would rather start with AKA2 than AA23, but Im also not calling anyone down with A222 or A333 unless I have the nuts or are think Im splitting with 1 other..hehe
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  10. <SPAN>This is why I would rather have AA23 double suited on the ace, rather then AKA2 double suited on the ace.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>First every </SPAN><SPAN>Omaha</SPAN><SPAN> hand produces six 2 card combinations, and any time you’re holding a pair, it goes down to 4 because you double some of the hands up.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>For AA23 the two hand combinations are: AA A2, A3, 23.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>For AAK2 the two hand combinations are: AA, AK, A2, and </SPAN><SPAN>K2</SPAN><SPAN>.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>These two hands share two combinations (AA and A2). No one is going to debate that those are strong opening hands.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>They differ in AA23 has the A3 and 23 combination, and AAK2 has AK and </SPAN><SPAN>K2</SPAN><SPAN> as combinations.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>General point I</SPAN><SPAN>: I’m going to just throw out that </SPAN><SPAN>K2</SPAN><SPAN> unsuited is a pretty useless hand, and therefore, it doesn’t need to be discussed.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>General Point II:</SPAN><SPAN> If both hands miss the flop, then they both should be mucked.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>General Point III:</SPAN><SPAN> AAK2 goes after the low end with one hand combination. AA23 goes after the low end with three hand combinations. Both hands can yield Nut high possibilities, with one difference.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>PAIRS:</SPAN><SPAN> <SPAN> </SPAN>AK in </SPAN><SPAN>Omaha</SPAN><SPAN> is much different then AK in Hold’ em. Flopping top pair with a top kicker isn’t going to be the nuts on the river, usually. Not to mention. If you pair the King, it only gives you more outs for trips, because you already have a pair of aces.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>TWO PAIR: </SPAN><SPAN>Both hands will produce a minimum of Aces up, which is rarely any good.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>TRIPS: </SPAN><SPAN>Trip Kings will normally win a small pot, because all the low draws go away, and you’re in there with another fool with a Kx looking to hit his boat. Trip 3’s only adds incentive to jam the pot hard with AA23.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>STRAIGHTS:</SPAN><SPAN> AK and A3 will never produce open ended straight draws. But 23 can. And when AA23 has a straight draw, it’s often scooping if it hits. Ak will produce the nut straight when it hits everytime. A3 can produce the nut straight, but there are combonations that can create higher straights too. This debately the only comparative advantage I can see.

    Something I orginally left out. A23 does give you BIG straight draw potentials. Say the board comes 4 5 9. An A, a 2, a 3, or a 6 makes you a a straight, and the nut low. I consider this draw much more valueable then the AK gut buster. </SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>

    <SPAN>FLUSHES:</SPAN><SPAN> AK and A3 produce the same Nut flush.</SPAN>

    <SPAN> </SPAN>
    <SPAN>Both hands Attack the high end in very similar ways, but AA23 attacks the low end much harder, and therefore, in the opinion of this Rat, is a superior hand.

    ONE MORE THING: Think about flops that contain an Ace. The AAK2 is now only going for half the pot because his low has been couterfeited. The AA23 is trying to scoop, because it has the set of aces, and still has the nut low draw.
    </SPAN>
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  11. NIURAT
    Do you play Omaha 8/b?
    LOL!
    Seriously though...impressive analysis. Thanks!
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  12. I do, but alone in the dark, and my mom told me if I do it too much, i'll go blind.
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  13. In my opinion the best starting hand in Omaha Hold Em' would be A K A K, double suited so that u have two different royal flush draws, straight draw, two pocket pairs, and two high cards. Just my opinion.
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  14. First, what is omaha hold'em?

    Second, the discussion is omaha hi/ lo. not omaha. The best hands for omaha is the debate between AKAK double suited and AAJT double suited on the ace. But that's for a different day.
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  15. Oh yeah. For some odd reason, PocketAces714's response made me think of this.

    http://www.pocketfives.com/7669D51E-...DE4E7E277.aspx
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  16. excelent post. just bumping for reference.
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  17. Omaha's full name is Omaha Hold'em. But it's just known as Omaha now.

    And yeah, he's talking about regular Omaha, not Hi/Lo.
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  18. Niurat , just wanted to say great posts man .
    f counterfeiting on the river
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  19. yeah f getting counterfeited on the river with an A23 and having one ignorant bastard in there with A4 and no hi. Happens more then it should.
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