I was just in the 50r and lost a 50 bb pot with a flush draw and one over allin on the flop. After the hand i have 13 bbs in the hijack or hijack minus 1. I looked up right after the hand and DonkeyWrenn was in the big blind sitting out, i figured it was a good spot to shove. Im playing a good amount of tables so i made the mistake of not looking over at him in the bb before i shoved. So i shove and the guy behind me snap reraises with a good stack behind. Then i look up and all of the sudden donkey wrenn is sitting in again. At this point i realized what was going on that if he called and had a hand he was enducing my shove by sitting out, which is a blatant angle. Id like to hear what everyone thinks about this and whether or nut they think it is ethical to do. BTW he called and obv had a hand in 99 and won vs my K8 and AQo slash obv.

heres HH for u

pokerstars Game #19694609558: Tournament #100869344, $50+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (500/1000) - 2008/08/17 - 18:19:08 (ET)
Table '100869344 39' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: DonkeyWrenn (16813 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 2: KtheKing (51532 in chips)
Seat 3: bradb_rad12 (40024 in chips)
Seat 4: CPT CRUX (6539 in chips)
Seat 5: A6540 (26814 in chips)
Seat 6: QTgirlE3 (11419 in chips)
Seat 7: Tmay420 (13462 in chips)
Seat 8: My Brim Low (72568 in chips)
Seat 9: bEatNicK"OG" (53294 in chips)
DonkeyWrenn: posts the ante 100
KtheKing: posts the ante 100
bradb_rad12: posts the ante 100
CPT CRUX: posts the ante 100
A6540: posts the ante 100
QTgirlE3: posts the ante 100
Tmay420: posts the ante 100
My Brim Low: posts the ante 100
bEatNicK"OG": posts the ante 100
bEatNicK"OG": posts small blind 500
DonkeyWrenn: posts big blind 1000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to QTgirlE3 [Js 5c]
KtheKing: folds
bradb_rad12: folds
CPT CRUX: folds
A6540: folds
DonkeyWrenn has returned
QTgirlE3: folds
Tmay420: raises 12362 to 13362 and is all-in
My Brim Low: raises 12362 to 25724
bEatNicK"OG": folds
DonkeyWrenn: calls 15713 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (9011) returned to My Brim Low
*** FLOP *** [Tc Qh 9s]
*** TURN *** [Tc Qh 9s] [Qc]
*** RIVER *** [Tc Qh 9s Qc] [8h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DonkeyWrenn: shows [9d 9c] (a full house, Nines full of Queens)
My Brim Low: shows [Ac Qd] (three of a kind, Queens)
DonkeyWrenn collected 6702 from side pot
Tmay420: shows [8c Kh] (two pair, Queens and Eights)
DonkeyWrenn collected 41486 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 48188 Main pot 41486. Side pot 6702. | Rake 0
Board [Tc Qh 9s Qc 8h]
Seat 1: DonkeyWrenn (big blind) showed [9d 9c] and won (48188) with a full house, Nines full of Queens
Seat 2: KtheKing folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: bradb_rad12 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: CPT CRUX folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: A6540 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: QTgirlE3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Tmay420 showed [8c Kh] and lost with two pair, Queens and Eights
Seat 8: My Brim Low (button) showed [Ac Qd] and lost with three of a kind, Queens
Seat 9: bEatNicK"OG" (small blind) folded before Flop

Oh please, for god's sake, you have no proof that this is 'blatant angle shooting'.

edit: He sat back in BEFORE you shoved. What is your problem?

lol, this is not 'angle shooting'
im pretty sure most top players like donkeywrenn are playing way too many tables to try and sitout/trap someone with a measly pair of nines. im sure he was just taking a leak or whatever and came back to see he had nines. it happens all the time to me

it depends on intention. If he actually did that to trap someone, then ya its an angle shoot and unethical.

I have thought about this on those occasions when someone is sitting out and returning over and over.

I have wondered whether they were trying to induce a raise or shove so I end up just watching carefully until it is my turn to act.

If people are doing this, I think its pretty shitty but I guess you just have to play it as it comes, if he's sitting out when its your turn to act go for it. If he sits back in do what you have to do.

 

Originally Posted by MUPokerPlayer

 

Originally Posted by charder

it depends on intention. If he actually did that to trap someone, then ya its an angle shoot and unethical.

is it any more unethical than the universal practice of shoving on him just because you think he is disconnected?

LOL QFT

ya srsly u shove on him light because u think hes sitting out and then get mad when he "angles u" and rly is there and takes ur chips

u had this coming, maybe next time shove if u have a hand not becus u think the bb isnt there

 

Originally Posted by AGame18

ya srsly u shove on him light because u think hes sitting out and then get mad when he "angles u" and rly is there and takes ur chips

u had this coming, maybe next time shove if u have a hand not becus u think the bb isnt there

LOL u cant be serious agame

It's online poker... no more angle shooting than blinding someone out when then they disconnect. Either one sucks, and maybe you don't do it to a friend, but it comes with the territory in this game.

On the scale of questionable things done by players online - this is about a 2 (with 10 being potripper). If it even was an angle.

 

Originally Posted by number1pen

agame i really hope your joking, this is a good topic, i think that its a good rule that if your sitting out to start the hand, u cant sit down in the middle of the hand

Once again, in live play your hand is folded once the last card is dealt if you are not at your seat. People should not have to act while they are guessing if you are going to return or not. It changes the game.

This is a very good post and raises the valid issue of whether a hand should be folded if the player is not sitting in upon the completion of the deal.

It would resolve the issue of raising blinds of those sitting out and those sitting out to gain advantage agaiinst those who might raise their blind.

if people think its an issue, then they should start a petition to have stars and other sites change their software

<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td> Willywoo:</td><td></td></tr></table><blockquote><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td> number1pen:</td><td></td></tr></table>
agame i really hope your joking, this is a good topic, i think that its a good rule that if your sitting out to start the hand, u cant sit down in the middle of the hand

</blockquote>

Once again, in live play your hand is folded once the last card is dealt if you are not at your seat. People should not have to act while they are guessing if you are going to return or not. It changes the game.

This is a very good post and raises the valid issue of whether a hand should be folded if the player is not sitting in upon the completion of the deal.

It would resolve the issue of raising blinds of those sitting out and those sitting out to gain advantage agaiinst those who might raise their blind.

---------------------------------------------------

I thought in live play as long as you get back to your seat b4 your turn to act, then you can play the hand?

Not an angle shoot IMO. Perhaps he had to go the bathroom, maybe a phone call. Who knows? Too many possibilities to call this an outright angle shoot. You decided to shove on him light because he wasn't there, and then when he returns to rightfully play his hand you complain because he didn't sit out like you planned. You simply got the cookie jar lid slammed on your fingers.