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Online Player Rankings

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  1. Silent Storm Silent Storm is offline

    CA
    United States

    Posts: 106
    Joined: Apr 08

    May 19th, 2009 (5/19/2009 5:08pm)

    I was curious to know what the differences are between the P5's poker ranking system and those of Bluff and Cardplayer. Their calculations seem to vary for the most part.

    And also which one does the online poker community feel holds the most weight?

    Thanks
  2. rock3656 rock3656 is offline

    San Diego, CA
    United States

    Posts: 1,988
    Joined: Jul 06

    May 19th, 2009 (5/19/2009 5:13pm) in reply to Silent Storm

    Bluff Magazines rankings seem purely volume-based, and I think the pocketfives rankings hold much more weight amongst MTT regulars, but the pocketfives rankings are pretty damn volume based too, but it also includes the propoll(which from what I hear no one really participates in.) Id like to reach the top 100 soon myself, but you must realize that many of the players in the top 100 are in debt up to their beaks, and the majority of them are really not close to the top 100 most talented tournament players in the world.
     21
  3. bluffslv bluffslv is offline

    Las Vegas, NV
    United States

    Posts: 967
    Joined: Dec 08

    May 19th, 2009 (5/19/2009 5:22pm) in reply to rock3656

     
    Originally Posted by rock3656 View Post

    Bluff Magazines rankings seem purely volume-based, and I think the pocketfives rankings hold much more weight amongst MTT regulars, but the pocketfives rankings are pretty damn volume based too, but it also includes the propoll(which from what I hear no one really participates in.) Id like to reach the top 100 soon myself, but you must realize that many of the players in the top 100 are in debt up to their beaks, and the majority of them are really not close to the top 100 most talented tournament players in the world.

    wat
  4. rock3656 rock3656 is offline

    San Diego, CA
    United States

    Posts: 1,988
    Joined: Jul 06

    May 19th, 2009 (5/19/2009 5:35pm) in reply to bluffslv

     
    Originally Posted by bluffslv View Post

     
    Originally Posted by rock3656 View Post

    Bluff Magazines rankings seem purely volume-based, and I think the pocketfives rankings hold much more weight amongst MTT regulars, but the pocketfives rankings are pretty damn volume based too, but it also includes the propoll(which from what I hear no one really participates in.) Id like to reach the top 100 soon myself, but you must realize that many of the players in the top 100 are in debt up to their beaks, and the majority of them are really not close to the top 100 most talented tournament players in the world.

    wat

    id say more then half of the top 100 is deep in makeup from live events, could be tottally off tho
     21
  5. Adam Adam is online now Emperor

    Atlanta, GA
    United States

    Posts: 12,630
    Joined: Dec 04

    May 19th, 2009 (5/19/2009 5:43pm) in reply to rock3656

     
    Originally Posted by rock3656 View Post

    Bluff Magazines rankings seem purely volume-based, and I think the pocketfives rankings hold much more weight amongst MTT regulars, but the pocketfives rankings are pretty damn volume based too, but it also includes the propoll(which from what I hear no one really participates in.) Id like to reach the top 100 soon myself, but you must realize that many of the players in the top 100 are in debt up to their beaks, and the majority of them are really not close to the top 100 most talented tournament players in the world.

    Actually around 100 players vote regularly in the pro poll...

    We've gone through the volume debate in the past, but in the end, it's simply not possible to give someone leaderboard credibility if they don't play a lot of tournaments. In any sport or game you play that has rankings, you get a higher ranking by turning in repeated quality results. The more you play, the more quality results you're likely to turn in. Still, the best high volume players tend to end up near the top.

    Basing rankings on ROI is also "not fair," and we've gone through that many times here as well... Among other things, it allows players with a couple huge scores to elevate above the pack even if they have mediocre results otherwise. It's also a violation of players' privacy that we're simply not comfortable with and creates an "exclusive" situation where players may not want us or others to know their information.

    There's really no way to base rankings on "talent." It'd be enormously subjective and end up carrying huge bias. We're convinced our current system is more comprehensive and inclusive than that, and there's a reason it's always carried the most weight among online tournament players of any system. With the way everyone is backed these days and everything else, who knows how much debt anyone is in or who owes who what... We just track tournaments and rank players based on results :) The pros do the rest...
     
  6. rock3656 rock3656 is offline

    San Diego, CA
    United States

    Posts: 1,988
    Joined: Jul 06

    May 19th, 2009 (5/19/2009 5:46pm) in reply to Adam

     
    Originally Posted by Adam View Post

     
    Originally Posted by rock3656 View Post

    Bluff Magazines rankings seem purely volume-based, and I think the pocketfives rankings hold much more weight amongst MTT regulars, but the pocketfives rankings are pretty damn volume based too, but it also includes the propoll(which from what I hear no one really participates in.) Id like to reach the top 100 soon myself, but you must realize that many of the players in the top 100 are in debt up to their beaks, and the majority of them are really not close to the top 100 most talented tournament players in the world.

    Actually around 100 players vote regularly in the pro poll...

    We've gone through the volume debate in the past, but in the end, it's simply not possible to give someone leaderboard credibility if they don't play a lot of tournaments. In any sport or game you play that has rankings, you get a higher ranking by turning in repeated quality results. The more you play, the more quality results you're likely to turn in. Still, the best high volume players tend to end up near the top.

    Basing rankings on ROI is also "not fair," and we've gone through that many times here as well... Among other things, it allows players with a couple huge scores to elevate above the pack even if they have mediocre results otherwise. It's also a violation of players' privacy that we're simply not comfortable with and creates an "exclusive" situation where players may not want us or others to know their information.

    There's really no way to base rankings on "talent." It'd be enormously subjective and end up carrying huge bias. We're convinced our current system is more comprehensive and inclusive than that, and there's a reason it's always carried the most weight among online tournament players of any system. With the way everyone is backed these days and everything else, who knows how much debt anyone is in or who owes who what... We just track tournaments and rank players based on results :) The pros do the rest...

    Ya, I didn't mean to come off as bashing the Pocketfives rankings, thanks for the indepth explanation..
     21
  7. Silent Storm Silent Storm is offline

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    May 19th, 2009 (5/19/2009 7:32pm) in reply to Silent Storm

    I like the method some of the poker sites use for their leaderboards where its:
    # of players, finish rank, buy in, etc = X amount of points and they only count your top XX results. That way it's based more on consistent good results in quality tournaments and volume doesn't matter AS MUCH,
    Thread Starter
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